I've got some questions about dual wielding one-handed weapons vs 2 handed weapons. . .

Someone recently posted another "destruction vs weapon dmg" thread. They included some DPS charts which plotted out magic, archery, 1 handed, dual wield, and 2-handed weapon damage. It wasn't entirely clear to me to what extent they included the effects of perks into their anolysis.

Anyhow, it looked like dual-wielding weapons considerably outdamaged the 2-handed weapons.

I make the following observations about dual wield vs 2-handed:

* 2-handed weapons generally have a higher *base* damage amount than one-handed weapons.
* However, when dual wielding, you, of course, have 2 weapons, not one
* That doesn't necessarily mean that with basic attacks, you do 2X more damage, because you have to swing twice, which takes time.
* However, dual-wield power attacks, as near as I can tell, effectively become a single powerful attack
* And, each swing of a 1-handed blade seems to be rather faster than a two-handed weapon, which seems to take about 2 seconds for a "normal" swing and 3 or 4 seconds for a power attack.
* 2-Handed weapons get some pretty good perks to increase damage - for example, warhammers get up to 75% armor bypass, 2-hand blades get more critical hits
* I'm not as familiar with the 1-handed perks

So, here's where we get to the crux of my question:

* Do 2-handed weapons generally get greater "up-front" spike-damage when you take into account the higher base damage, and perks like the 75% armor bypass (this, of course, depends on the enemy - some enemies, like dragons, I think, don't have "armor" so the armor bypass becomes kind of meaningless), or the increased chance for critical hits? But then, if an enemy doesn't die right away, you will do less damage over time than a dual wielder?
* One of the two-handed perks is the chance to decapitate enemies - is that strictly just a visual perk, or is that actually a type of "critical" hit which can randomly give you a much larger damage hit?
* One of the perks 2-hand gives you a sprint-power attack to do critical damage. Does that bonus stack with the greatsword critical damage bonus, to give you a chance to do 2x critical damage sometimes?
* I'm not as familiar with the one-hand perks, as I've mostly been playing a 2-hand redguard heavy armor tank. What perks do the 1 hand weapons have, with regards to dual wielding, which compares?

The one-handed perk tree is basically a duplicate of the two-handed perk tree, with the addition of a separate branch for dual wielding (that adds additional perks for +35% attack speed and +50% power attack damage.) So you get the same decapitation perk and sprinting critical strike, the blade type perks for bleeding and ignoring armor, etc. I haven't done the math for two-handed power attacks, but I'm guessing they're probably not as strong as dual wield power attacks, especially once you have the +power attack damage dual wielding perk. You can do critical strikes via two-handed from a greater distance, more quickly, and for good damage. The dual wield power attacks might also take longer. The main benefit from two-handed though is the ability to block, its damage is inferior to dual wielding in every way. Compared to sword and shield though, two-handed has slightly higher damage per second, better range, and much higher damage per shot from power attacks, so you'll get a lot more one hit kills.

FYI Dual Wielders can't block so if you are comparing the two I'd seriously make that one of the points of consideration

DW will always do more damage. But with the right gear and skills both can end up powerful enough for the difference not to matter (easy game).

So it comes down to choice/style and which you find more fun. I prefer 2H since the attacks and power attacks do not root me, has a sprint attack unlike DW, more range, far easier to switch to healing spells, and I can block.

I prefer the two handed weapons. Range is something very important when fighting the most dangerous of enemies: retreating and dodging magic users.

As to the question of beheading: I have never beheaded a strong opponent on the first strike. It appears to be some super critcal hit that finishes an already damaged enemy.

Dual wield does get sprint attacks, but I found them a lot harder to land than with 2h (though that may have just been because my dual wield experience was from my first playthrough.) I did have a lot more fun with 2H though. It's also easier to switch between spells, bows, and 2H than it is for dual wielders, a major consideration if you're a hybrid conjuration build, or using a darker dungeons mod that makes you need the candlelight spell.

A proper dual wielder doesn't need to block. Spec your character properly and the fights over before it really gets started. I've been dual wielding with my latest character and I dont think I'll ever pick up a two hander again, and thats all I ever used with over 5 characters.

Dual-wielding, 3rd Person view, weapons out, sprint = awesome.

Swords at least, I never use anything but swords so I wouldn't know how the others look.

I find them both useful. My orc berzerker was a two hander and he had no issues even on master level. The one thing you have to watch out for is that with two handed weapons your recovery time is a lot longer so you have to make sure that most of your strikes count. You can afford some misses here and there but not nearly as many as my sword and shield characters do. The upside is that with two handers i can dispatch alot of enemies in only a couple of hits and since my range is longer i can hit them before they hit me and stagger them. Once they are staggered its game over and they are toast.

Duel wield is a bit OP even with only a couple of perks. Since its not that hard to simply dodge attacks the loss of blocking isn't that big of a deal for me. The only enemies that give me any trouble or those mages that one shoot me with the iceshard attacks or the lightning attack that just saps me.

My favorite play type is by far the sword and shield. Its more strategic and allows alot more flexibility in combat. Sure i can't do as much damage but if I need to get away i can shield bash and stagger them. If im being attacked by a mage my shield has 50% magic resistance and of course I block arrows. (this doesn't seem to work correctly all the time though so it might be bugged) The matrix slow mow shield perk when enemies use power attacks is probably on my top 5 list of useful perks. It is however very OP and they should put a timer on it so it only activates every couple of minutes or so.

Also, shield/sword against dragon = never lose again.

you dont need to block when you stagger your enemy with a power attacks. 3 swings power attack is probably enough even low level to end a fight one on one

2h & dual wield have the same advanatges & drawbacks. Strong attack & weak defence.

I've tried Sword & Shield and it makes combat very interesting. weaker attack, sure, but the added defence & the perks in block like 50% spell resistance is amazing, as Magical combat NPC's are unbeliveabley strong.

Dual-wield doesn't provide a reliable means to stagger a mobile opponent. Dual-power attacks root you in place and single-power attacks aren't as likely to stagger an opponent as with a two-handed weapon. Someone using a shield or a two-handed weapon with the Block Runner perk will find it much easier to stagger those difficult foes, such as mages, so they can follow up with a power attack. Remember that dual-wield makes up a total of 3 perks in the one-handed tree. It is not a standalone skill, so there's little reason not to have perks in the block tree for when using a shield will help you deal with mages. The game gets easy enough at higher levels that any style is adequate to quickly dispatch your foes.


Don't forget the Sweep perk. Although it's possible to hit multiple foes with a double-power attack, the Sweep perk is more effective at damaging and staggering groups of enemies.

What I found with 1h and 2h power attacks, you stagger you're opponent, but they've practically recovered from the stagger by the time you've finished power attacking. Shield bashes though are very quick, its easy to land 2 or 3 quick sword swings before your opponent has recovered.

I did mean to include that. I just forgot, but I had thought of it as a point of comparison. Good point, anyhow.

This is true, but if you dual-wield with a sword or dagger in your left hand (not sure about axe/mace), then a single power attack with your left will do a "stab" animation that is very quick -- just as fast as a shield bash, as far as I can tell. Set up an opponent with that stab, and then you can get in a good couple of shots or a full DW power attack afterwards that will not miss with any of the 3 strikes... very nasty.

-Loth

Cool, I'll have to give that a try, I'm just starting up a dual wielder/archer right now. Going to try always wielding a dagger in my off hand this time.

I've found that I really like DW, especially when coupled with an absorb stamina enchant.

Absolutely agree.

The basis of most of the 'destruction is weak' comparisons are flawed due to comparing apples to oranges. Certain people refuse to accept that concentrating solely on one magic skill creates a weak character, but refuse to accept that a melee based character who only conentrated on one or two-handed, without upgrading, or enchanting, or other offensive skills, is also a weak character. The root of their evil is that they can't accept that their playing style is poor, not that destruction is on an equal basis with other single non-magic combat skills.

r = right attack
R = right power attack
l = left attack
L = left power attack

it's not clear to me that sword and shield (SS) or dual wield (DW) or two handed (T) is better as far as damage goes. most noobs will simply button mash and power attack as often as they can. which is fine. most decent players will use frame cancel combos. DW has a permanent stagger which is rR-rlL. i only hit the full combo about 50% of the time, with frequent failures on the middle l (still 2 hits are not bad). it's unclear to me that this is faster or slower than the SS combo of rR-rrR. it's the same amount of attacks - i would argue that the SS combo is slightly faster, since the last R is completed faster than the L of the DW. however, as far as sustained combos go, the rR-rrR of SS repeating and the rl-RL of DW repeating looks to be fairly comparable. i haven't experimented with T to know if the frame cancel works. at my skill level, i hit the SS combo 80% of time, making SS both my highest damage and the best block. power attack with a shield is also helpful.

keep in mind, however, that a dual wielder can use 4 enchantments. using 2 absorb healths (one on each sword), paralyze and absorb stamina, enemies will be permanently paralyzed and you'll be healing yourself some 20 health per hit. this also lets you permanently power attack (better than elemental fury). this means you don't actually need to block melee. obviously, archers are a different story.

as far as weapon choice goes, raw speed is dagger in left. raw damage is mace in right. the mace has the invisible advantage of defeating the nonexistent armor of the enemy.

A dual wielding character is more likely to die in combat until they get the perks, but a dual wielder has some of the coolest animations in the game. My dual Wielders are fun to watch, but they need a lot more care and precision during the early stages during combat. I had a character get stuck behind a corpse and unable to connect the power attack against a Dreugr with a battle axe, Finishing Animations are not fun to watch when they happen to your character.

Many people seem to miss the fact that dual-wielding weapons is not always about attacking with both weapons simultaneously. The Flurry perks increase your attack speed with single attacks as well as double attacks. This means that if you have a weapon in your left hand, be it a dagger or a sword, your single attacks with the weapon in your right hand will be faster than they would be with a weapon and shield. This opens up several opportunities. You can hold a dagger with Soul Trap and an expensive damage enchantment in your left hand, only striking with it when your opponent is near death. You can mine ore veins faster by swinging a pick axe at the vein with a dagger in the left hand. Or you can keep a weapon with a paralyze enchantment in the left hand and only swing it to stun your foe, then use your weapon in the right hand to deal the damage.