I could not escape with Hadvar, when the imperial captain said to just execute me for no reason because it was just simpler than releasing me, i growed a big hatred for the empire, and a big sympathy for that "stormcloak" that was apparently in war with these imperial scum.

First time through I somehow didnt see that there was a choice. I dont know if I missed it or the pathing or scripting got messed up but all I knew was there was a door and someone telling me to get in. But yea, on second time through seeing the choice between going with the escaping prisoner or with the imperial theres no way Id go with the guard.

I'm not talking about joining for redemption necessarily.

Why side with the imperials?

I was on a covert mission to intercept and kill Ulfric. As I entered his camp, the Imperials surrounded "us" with a huge force. The situation was inescapable. The grunts would not listen, the exection beauracracy would not listen. Hadvar listened, and freed me, and vouched for my credentials. Especially considering I'm an elf, it's obvious I'm not a Stormcloak. Later, I learned that the Imperials were nothing more than Thalmor lackeys and changed allegiance. Better to have an honest friend who hates you openly than someone else's lackey who's motives are unclear.

My character is anything but the innocently accused Paladin, however that doesn't mean that he should be given the axe upon entering Skyrim. If he's to be executed, might as well be because of something he has done, not because the Imperials picked him up in a raid and thought 'eh, well just kill him to be sure'. It really reflects badly on the Empire to me. However I've yet to do anything that I deem warants my character execution without a trial.

this is the answer

So you're judging a whole nation guilty of some imagined crime based on the actions of a single person who makes a bad call due to maybe battle fatigue, fear of her General or just plain impulse? How does this make you any better than that Captain hmmm? And I'll say this again. Skyrim is not modern day Earth. It's more like the dark ages. Justice was not sought in courtrooms but on battlefields.

Please, previously I had been a staunch supporter of the Empire since Morrowind. Had I started during Daggerfall I would have been a supporter even longer, yet sadly I wasn't around then. Your interpretation however is off, since the Empire does have courtrooms and it does have trials and it is influenced by modern day earth as much as it is the old world. The Empires values of freedom of religion and antislavery are very much a new world idea as well as general rights to the average man. The Empire had long been a champion of freedom and justice, not simply battlefield justice. To simply write it off as part of the times doesn't fly with me, because in the past the Empire has represented better. I do judge the Empire however on their short comings, in which Ulfric was being brought to trial in Cyrodiil when Tullius decided he'd rather just execute him and his men there at Helgen.

So I judge the Empire on the actions of their officers and leaders, none which are very admirable in my eyes. They had Ulfric, a Jarl of Skyrim in captivity along with men and women who were identified as not being the ones they were looking for, and chose yet to kill them all the same.

I always assumed that they didn't immediately send Ulfric to the chopping block because they wanted information from him first--like where the Stormcloak camps are located. If I were Tullius, in hindsight, I would have lopped his head off first regardless of any useful information swimming around in there.

I went with Hadver because I didn't pause long enough to really realize there was a choice. I could hear Ralof calling for me, but I saw Hadvar first, and ran with him. I later played through following Ralof, but was so distressed at the fact that Hadvar seemed to have disappeared from the game completely that I restarted. XD

Where does everyone get the idea that you are innocent? You apparently crossed the border - illegaly.

They want to make their version of the story the official and only one, of course. Exaggerated warhero stories ftw!

Also, Lord Tidus: Those random hostages were an exception since it was the Big Ulfric Catch and not your minor bordercrossing crime (which was probably made up anyway and planted into the prisoners' heads just to catch Ulfric). This incident doesn't tell the Imperials always are that impulsive in taking prisoners. This time they "had to" because they got the biggest fish they were after. Then they could publish their own version of the end-war with no random eyewitnessers (other than townsfolk from an Imperial-minded village) possibly telling otherwise. Leaving two casualties alive would've been a risk, thus they felt they have to be sacrificed for "greater good". Or maybe only the Captain thought like this, and she might've just been playing tough because Tullius was there to see it all. Hadvar seemed more "Imperialish", more humane.

Your not being executed for crossing the border. Your being executed because you were caught in a raid. The Imperials know nothing about you or your past deed unless you RP that your some famous criminal.

@ Archmagister Nelacayne: Its not just this one paticular incident that puts me against the Empire. They've gone way down hill since then, but the fact that they had no qualm in just killing anyone they thought might be an assosiate (note they don't just execute all those stromcloak prisoners you encounter all across Skyrim, why would now be any different?) and that none of the other soldiers bothered to try and stop the execution other than 'but hes not on the list, oh do it anyway? yes mam' doesn't indure to them either from an RP perspective. Tullius being there and just letting it be anyway only shows to me that the upper command doesn't care who they kil. Its a world of 'ifs' and we don't know what was going through that captins head exactly, but from my characters point of view, it was pretty corrupt and heartless to just kill them all.

It's two equally bad choices, if you ask me.

On the one hand, you have to trust an imperial who knows and would recognize you as someone who had been a prisoner ordered executed. But, the imperial had shown doubt as to your guilt and seemed disturbed at the orders.

On the other hand, it's an imperial keep that is clearly in imperial territory and and swarming with imperial personel. It was the Stormcloaks and being mistaken for one that got you into that mess in the first place, and the last thing you might want to do is to actually risk being captured yet again with yet another group of Stormcloaks. Attempting to escape with the couple bluebacks you see in the courtyard by going into an imperial keep doesn't seem any smarter than going with Hadvar.

I went with Hadvar. Later I had second thoughts about it when I learned I could have killed that captain had I gone with Ralof, but by my second play through I was biased enough against Ulfric (don't like the character at all) that it didn't matter any more.

The games a bit bland with the whole hand holding, and putting your life and freedom at risk means nothing to the player whatsoever. More of chose in the game would be nice but all the quests makes you assume you fine with being someone's errand boy.

I guess it's general war mentality at play here. People become ruthless. The end-war situation doesn't necessarily bring out the best of a people, more like make them act as brutal as they ever will. Ulfric getting away due to Alduin incident should've only made Imperials even more bitter, then. I wouldn't be surprised if they just then had started some more irrational executions around Skyrim just for revenge. But they did not as far as I know. This was a special case because they had Ulfric.

It's hard to judge a people's state of mind when they live in a crisis... I've never really been in one and that I'm grateful. I'm just guessing from what I know about psyche, news from the world, and having been a year in the (lazy) army.

Also, about this army mentality... You don't question your officer's poor orders, especially at spots like this. If you opposed, you might've been archered like that horse thief. You just fulfill the orders. Also, a senior officer to that officer tends not to change the orders the latter gave, just evaluate him/her based on it. Tullius might've either chuckled and lol'd in his mind for the lady Captain's bad leadership, disapproved but kept his mouth shut nonetheless, or even approved. Him not interfering anyway was very credible, I think.

I still hang on to my theory that the high-ranking soldiers had agreed to kill everyone involved (so Hadvar didn't know and got a bit upset, I think, but professionally followed orders - he certainly wasn't a high-ranked guy with his bookkeeper equipment) even if it wasn't most Imperiarily done. Just this once. To cut the loose ends. What if PC was a Stormcloak too? They couldn't take the risk.

I'm not saying they all can't be pure evil. They can. I just speculate the Captain might've been the only one. And the general war-mentality / bloodlust / survival instict / whatever and the pressure stemming from the importance of the situation itself might've affected her (and others') reasoning, and a lot at that. But, the Septims have been gone for long, so their values might've twisted at some point in general.

Of course, from the character's point of view, it's corrupt and heartless! There's nothing else in your mind than "an evil lot who try to execute you"! I posted earlier in a very similar topic about whether any of my characters could ever join the Empire after what they almost did to them. They'd have a hard time, that's for sure, but one can do it. He's an Imperial bardish guy and I'm doing the Empire quests with him. He's reasoned his way out of the near decapitation by knowing the Imperial ways and just blaming the situation and the Captain. But were it myself in real life in a situation like this, of course I wouldn't trust the Empire ever again, and just thought they are animals. I'd likely fail to reason that the Captain and/or the situation might've been the only thing that was wrong there, but even if I could realize that, I'd still fear the out of them and avoid them for the rest of my life for sure.

In my first game I went with Hadvar even though I was a Nord. The sound in Skyrim is awful and people to the left and right of you are often louder than people right in front of you, especially when wearing headphones. I didn't hear Ralof because I was looking at him and Hadvar was standing right next to my right ear. I didn't even know it was an option to go with Ralof.

From an RP point of view its pretty tough choice. Assuming I had to make this decision in real-life, having no prior allegience to either side, I would probably follow Hadvar. He stands a better chance of getting out alive because the area presumably has more armed Imperials around. The Stormcloaks you meet along the way are somehow free of bonds and heavily armed, I wouldn't have thought this beforehand and this would be an unlikely situation in real life, especially as you are only minutes since the execution.

Hadvar seems like he doesn't really agree with your execution either, if he didn't cut my hands free I would either a) try and persuade him as he is being charged by 4 angry Stormcloaks, "set me free, I can help you fight" or I would try and appeal to his merciful side, "set me free and say I was taken by the Dragon, nobody will ever find out". If he got cut down by Stormcloaks without setting me free I would say to them "look friends, I'm a prisoner too" holding up my bound hands, "set me free, I'll come with you".

Now here's my darkside... If Hadvar accepted my request to cut my bonds while he was being charged by 4 angry Stormcloaks, I might be inclined to kill him myself, stab him in the back, just incase the 4 vs 2 fight didn't go our way... or at least knock him over the head from behind, rendering him unconcious, perhaps I could then persuade the Stormcloaks to let him live to repay him for his kindness.

Guess its my own personal morals coming to play. I've never been one to shrug of my morals just because someones my superior. Had anyone else objected or tried to save me or the horse thief for that matter then my opinions of the Empire would have been different, but as it was, no one really did. All Hadvar said was ''what shoud we do with him" and she said execute him to which he replied "oh ok, well we''ll ship your bones back to Hammerfell". I don't believe the Empire or their servants are Pure Evil, but I don't believe their really going with the best interest of the people.