On master difficulty, way too much is ridiculously easy.. defeating the point why I play on master.. and some enemies are nearly impossible. Just add more power to the things that are currently face-rollingly easy and I'd be happy.

But, in addition:
I would personally not have allowed the comboing of enchanting, alchemy, smithing (the infinite loop. Take that out, please.
And well, over-all, I feel smithing is just too powerful in comparison to your actual combat skill. A master at one-handed can switch to a legendarily upgraded two-handed weapon (with 0 two-handed skill) and do more damage than his one-handed weapon. Just make smithing 25% less powerful than it is now. And well.. Change the fact that iron daggers give as much XP as a daedric cuirass when crafted.

Sorry but it's completely true and has been replicated many times. Just use the search function, there was a thread dedicated to just this experiment and the results. In order for you to have leveled to 100 in smithing, you HAD to level 17 times- there is no way around it, it's a game mechanic, it doesn't 'change' from character to character. You levelled something 100 times, that makes your character level. You also need a MINIMUM of 450 daggers (if you're using smithing gear), about 475-480 without.

Again, it's been done, it's been replicated, if you're on PC start a new character, give yourself 20k gold and try it.

If you reached level 100 smithing on a level 25 character, 17 of those levels were attributed to smithing. That shows how much time you spent in game collecting materials. And that's fine, that's how the game is INTENDED to work- if you spend 50-75 game hours collecting ore and skin, you SHOULD be able to max something out if you want it that badly. It's working the way it should be working.

Problem is that any large enough group will have different ideas about what should be changed and how. So, if you change the game to cater to the "OMG, Master is too easy! Nerf everything to the ground so that the game feels like Dark Souls to me!" crowd, then there's plenty of other people who will find the game worse now.

(Further complication comes from asking about this on forums, which tend to be the distilled essence of the most extreme opinions - either "Best Game Ever" or "Worst Game Ever". The forum population doesn't come close to representing the "typical player", but rather the six-sigma fanatics.

Personally, I think that's where Fallout 3 went wrong.... they designed Broken Steel by actually listening to the people whining on the forums. Big mistake, as it screwed up a bunch of stuff.)

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As for Smithing and Stealth.... personally, I didn't find them overpowered (oh, and this was on Adept). But, then, the way I played is different than how other people played. I certainly didn't "gimp" myself or constantly think "oh, I've got to not do this or I'll be OP". I just played the game the way it felt right, and ended up decently challenged all the way into the high 40's. So, in my opinion, I don't see much need to change them.

Master smithing give 10 extra base damage on a weapon if you have the perk, 20 armor for perked armors. For lower end weapons like steel sword this is over an 100% increase, for daeric weapons, two hand weapons and bows the effect is 50-70%.
And yes smithing is easy to level up, you end up with more leather than you can use.

I also say that additional harder difficulty levels had been an good idea, Oblivion had max difficulty where you do 1/7 damage and take 7x damage , however Oblivion had an slider making this hard to control, in addition low weapon damage and enemy damage combined with lots of health for both player and enemy made higher difficulty more boring than dangerous.

The biggest change i want is forum posters to stop saying nerf and toons. I never played WoW. Half the problem is the preconceptions you are bringing to the game with you.

My "toon" is not godlike and smith brew potions and enchant a little but not incessantly so my giy makes stuff he needs and the fights are just fun enough. It's a PICNIC situation (problem in chair; not in computer).

It's a nice idea, and some other games do this. I'm a purist though. It's not to my own personal taste.




Not sure I'd see the point. Maybe for armour. But I think it detracts from the immersion of the game if you dress items up as other items. I don't see the point.




With Smithing if you wish to stay in Steel you can, via upgrading. Smithing has just about as many perks as most of the other trees. Bethesda will not be redesigning this area of the game. It'd look out of place if they did. I'm sure there will be mods to satisfy those who want it re-tweaked though.




No. This won't happen. There was a mod which did a similar thing for Oblivion, and I'm sure eventually there will be one for Skyrim too. But HUUUUGE game re-designs will not happen from Bethesda themselves. For one they'd be a bugger to do as a time specific patch.




Never going to happen. They've chosen their balance and they'll stick with it now. Maybe more spells will be introduced with DLC but the system is far to integral to the game to start from scratch.

Improvements and progression are always a great thing. But what you're asking for is not an improvement, it's a change in gameplay and mechanics that have been part of the Elder Scrolls series forever, and are one of the reasons many people are fans of the games.

Here is an example:
When people say 'smithing is too easy', they're referring to the fact that Bethesda did not restrict items to level caps. You can literally make the easiest item and level from it over and over again, until you reach the maximum level.

First, as I pointed out above, that's not as easy as it sounds. But the real question here is: should they have level capped the item? The answer is no, because what if I WANTED to level my smithing as fast as possible? Locking the cap locks ME out of a playstyle, and that's what these games are known for. If you as a player feel that the exploit is too easy...don't do it. It's not forced upon you.

In Morrowind and Oblivion, you could level up sneak with a coffee cup and a few hours of watching tv. It was an exploit. Did you HAVE to use it? No.

The beauty of these games is that the level of challenge is left completely up to you, the player. That is completely different from every other game on the market and that's why some people have such a hard time with it. They want the game to challenge them. TES games do challenge the player- to have willpower and play the game they want to play.

Stop looking at the game for guidance and look to yourself. That is challenging.

This. Couldn't agree more.

I have no objection about being able to grind until overpowered. But the grinding process have to make sense. 500 iron daggers to reach master? It doesn't make sense. 50000 daggers wouldn't make sense. You can cook a fantazillion pots of tea but you'll never reach the level of mastery as a gourmet chef. You can change tires all your life, but that doesn't make you a mechanic on the Ferrari F1 team.

For those that doesn't want to spend perks into smithing because they only want iron, then pay for the learning whydon'tya.

I'm not against grinding. I'm against easy grinding.

However, nobody is forcing you to forge or improve an Iron Dagger.

For a Smith character upgrading loot before selling it on makes sense. But nobody is forcing you to do that either.

Your post is beautiful I know how TES games are, i'm a TES fan, spent a lot of time playing morrowind and oblivion. I said the words you quoted cause i think there is no point going "dont mess my game" argument, i wanted some real arguments against changes that people are asking for, and we have two good ones that i included in OP. Now, I dont even want these changes anymore.

I think it's the fact that you are rewarded with the same level increase rate from daggers that you are with high end weapons. No matter what you smith, you still increase at the same rate. That would be more realistic. But in the end, if one is set out on raising that skill, it doesn't matter. they are going to grind it out anyway.

Even then, it doesn't really contribute to being a super-uber-duber. The cap should not be on the rate as much as it should be on the max improvement level. Once you improve a weapon to Legendary status, that should be it. Realistically that is. Yet if one want's to go beyond that then let them. But then he or she should not complain that it is overpowered. They should have stopped at 200%. If they possess the skills and perks to get there, then don't wear the smithing gear and drink that potion as well.

I have no issues with grinding out a char either. In fact I enjoy the game more once my char is built, and THEN do quests. That doesn't mean that said char is a demi god.

What you're saying makes sense in reality. And if smithing were the point of the game, and had quests and storylines and such revolving around it, I would agree with you.

But it's an optional 'extra', something different and new to add more to the rich tapestry of the world. It's not required for the main quest nor is it necessary to get the 'best' armor or weapons in the game.

In my game, my character doesn't make iron daggers. Why? Because she doesn't use them and they don't sell for much money. She makes the most ornate and difficult thing she knows how to make...because that's realistic.

And that's roleplaying. It makes zero sense for a CHARACTER to use an exploit. Players use them, not characters.

And you know what? That's fine too- there's nothing wrong with not role playing in a game like this. However, I think you get a lot more out of the game, and a lot more things ( like your post) make sense when role playing. Again, stop looking to the game to tell you what to do- if you played the game 'naturally', from your character's perspective, there wouldn't be an issue I think.

Well thanks I'm very passionate about the game too and want all the players to be happy with it. I think once DLC content and expansions start rolling out people will be more satisfied. People have forgotten how vanilla Morrowind and vanilla Oblivion were laughably easy until level cap content was released.

This is absolutely why the game is NOT balanced.

I absolutely agree that this is a single player game and players should be able to be powerful if you want to be.

The game makes you powerful insanely fast and you don't even have to try, you should at least be required to put a little effort and thinking into becoming powerful.

You shouldn't have to put great efforts in order to NOT become powerful.

Actually it makes a lot of sense, and it IS the right way to gain mastery. Putting time into something is a requirement to mastery.

It is called the 10,000 hour rule. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq2n1Jlx5P0

Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book about this after looking at research from psychologists that study mastery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

That being said, it is a game after all and shouldn't require literally 10,000 hours. However, you should at least be required to smith different and higher tier items to gain more skill at higher levels.

I appreciate that everyone's opinion has equal value but it does seem like a lot of people are just defending the status quo rather than a deliberate design ideology. If Skyrim had been launched with all perks and skills in perfect balance, would anyone seriously be complaining that the game wasn't unbalanced enough? If so, it would be the first time in thirty years of gaming that I have even heard of such a complaint!

I would have thought the ideal would be to have the skills and perk as balanced as possible (no easy task in itself) and let players choose skills and perks based on how much they suit their character concept rather than how powerful they are.

If players want to be godlike or compensate for roleplaying restrictions that's what the difficulty setting is for, or so i thought. I honestly don't understand how pimping or gimping your character through unbalanced skill and perk choices can be seen as a good way of regulating game difficulty.