Skyrim's DLCs need to have more emotional context than Vanil

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:00 am

Btw I loved Karliah's acting, forgot about her.

The voice actor for Karliah was quite good and she was potentially a good character. But her story was so atrociously written it's like you're having to help a crazy woman because her actions don't make any sense. Like

Spoiler
She spends 25 years coming up with a daft plan to undermine the entire guild because she's been framed by Mercer Frey. She twitch shoots the PC because she "can't get a clear shot" - maybe you should have waited for more than a second before firing then. In doing so she wastes a poison it apparently took her a year to make but never occurred to her to make more than one arrow's worth, nor did the thought occur that paralysis poisons are common and she could have paralysed Mercer and tied him up. The thought never occurred to her Frey might not be alone and have someone with him - the player - he's decided he wants dead for no reason. She declares she's saved your life by leaving you paralysed and helpless, in reality saved only by Mercer Frey's incompetence in making sure you're dead - he could easily have stabbed you through the heart or cut your head off.
Then, after 25 years, it suddenly occurs to her she has G's journal and she could try to translate that. Fortunately, Brynjolf and friends are gullible enough to believe some text they're told is a translation without having any means of checking whether it's at all accurate, so really she could have just made something up on day one. To be fair, they confirm this by checking Mercer has somehow been lugging vast amounts of gold through a room that always has several professional thieves in it without being spotted. Luckily, he's left his plans lying around in a house he apparently never uses.
Then she thinks it's a good idea for the player and Brnjolf to sell their soul for seemingly nothing more than a set of armour probably inferior to what the player already has and this will somehow help defeat Mercer. This resurrects a sub cult in the guild named after a songbird for some strange reason that guards a skeleton key supposedly incredibly useful for thieves but they're not allowed to use it. Unless they're the player, in which case they can carry it and use it for as long as they like. After defeating Mercer in a 'heist' G planned 25 years ago but nobody acted on despite the fact it entailed no more planning than going to a dungeon, something you just go and do on the spot, Karliah and the rest of the guild seem to to just forget about all the treasure Mercer stole in their policy of putting all their treasure in a big communal vault and leaving it there for some unexplained reason. Why the player was exempt from putting into this communal pot, what it's supposed to be for and why nobody had apparently noticed anything going missing over the course of 25 years is, of course, a total mystery. Instead, Karliah tells you she can't possibly accompany you on the final quest, but once you've battled through the dungeon she suddenly appears out of nowhere.

You can have the best actors in the world, but they can only go off the script they're given and the direction they get.
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Loane
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:20 am

The voice actor for Karliah was quite good and she was potentially a good character. But her story was so atrociously written it's like you're having to help a crazy woman because her actions don't make any sense. Like

Spoiler
She spends 25 years coming up with a daft plan to undermine the entire guild because she's been framed by Mercer Frey. She twitch shoots the PC because she "can't get a clear shot" - maybe you should have waited for more than a second before firing then. In doing so she wastes a poison it apparently took her a year to make but never occurred to her to make more than one arrow's worth, nor did the thought occur that paralysis poisons are common and she could have paralysed Mercer and tied him up. The thought never occurred to her Frey might not be alone and have someone with him - the player - he's decided he wants dead for no reason. She declares she's saved your life by leaving you paralysed and helpless, in reality saved only by Mercer Frey's incompetence in making sure you're dead - he could easily have stabbed you through the heart or cut your head off.
Then, after 25 years, it suddenly occurs to her she has G's journal and she could try to translate that. Fortunately, Brynjolf and friends are gullible enough to believe some text they're told is a translation without having any means of checking whether it's at all accurate, so really she could have just made something up on day one. To be fair, they confirm this by checking Mercer has somehow been lugging vast amounts of gold through a room that always has several professional thieves in it without being spotted. Luckily, he's left his plans lying around in a house he apparently never uses.
Then she thinks it's a good idea for the player and Brnjolf to sell their soul for seemingly nothing more than a set of armour probably inferior to what the player already has and this will somehow help defeat Mercer. This resurrects a sub cult in the guild named after a songbird for some strange reason that guards a skeleton key supposedly incredibly useful for thieves but they're not allowed to use it. Unless they're the player, in which case they can carry it and use it for as long as they like. After defeating Mercer in a 'heist' G planned 25 years ago but nobody acted on despite the fact it entailed no more planning than going to a dungeon, something you just go and do on the spot, Karliah and the rest of the guild seem to to just forget about all the treasure Mercer stole in their policy of putting all their treasure in a big communal vault and leaving it there for some unexplained reason. Why the player was exempt from putting into this communal pot, what it's supposed to be for and why nobody had apparently noticed anything going missing over the course of 25 years is, of course, a total mystery. Instead, Karliah tells you she can't possibly accompany you on the final quest, but once you've battled through the dungeon she suddenly appears out of nowhere.

You can have the best actors in the world, but they can only go off the script they're given and the direction they get.

Absolutely!

Also great post.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:08 am

Personally I think the player should have more dialouge options.
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:10 am

I liked Farengar Secret-Fire's voice acting. I really felt connected to his outstanding and powerful dialogue. I recommend that everyone who does not remember him goes to Dragonsreach and rejoice in his presence. He is a testament to all the effort put into voice acting in this game. this is sarcasm, the lowest form of wit, to accompany the lowest form of dedication embodied in any voice actor I have seen.

Coming here to lick my boots again, are we? Oh wait thats the little brat's dialogue :)
Personally i feel that children should be given the option to shut up. Text dialogue will do for them.
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Alex [AK]
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:50 pm

Not to sound like an old fogey, but I still think that a large part of the character-attachment or lack thereof comes from spoken rather than written dialogue. NPCs could say a lot more, and weren't bogged down by dodgy voice acting. I know we're not going to go back to that, though.

The problem with having voice-acted characters with too much emotion is really that, once you've heard them passionately say something three or four times, it will probably sound bored to the ear.
The only reason there was less character depth was because the game was so damned small, they could have easily added twice the character dialogue WITH voice, twice the quest lines, and twice the dungeons / monsters . The game is a miniscule 3.8 gigs on the 360 and could easily have been 7.6 . So yeah, the voice has NOTHING to do with the depth, it was a development choice. The new trailer looks more exciting and in depth than the entirety of vanilla skyrim.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:34 am

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get anything resembling "emotional attachment" to the characters. It's just not something that Beth does well. I'm not saying that I could do any better, mind you.

However, overall I'm pleased with what info we've gotten about Dawnguard. It expands and improves (in my opinion) on two of the weaker areas of the game (vampirism and lycanthropy). It adds higher-end content. It forces a choice between sides in (what may very well be) a solid and world-shaping questline.

In short, I'm not sure that I could have expected more for twenty dollars. Well..okay, I COULD expect more, but I'd simply be dreaming. While any of us won't really know what's there until release (or from reading what beta testers breaking NDA say), I feel that it's a solid and genuine effort from gamesas to please the majority of fans.
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Alexxxxxx
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:40 am

Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get anything resembling "emotional attachment" to the characters. It's just not something that Beth does well. I'm not saying that I could do any better, mind you.

However, overall I'm pleased with what info we've gotten about Dawnguard. It expands and improves (in my opinion) on two of the weaker areas of the game (vampirism and lycanthropy). It adds higher-end content. It forces a choice between sides in (what may very well be) a solid and world-shaping questline.

In short, I'm not sure that I could have expected more for twenty dollars. Well..okay, I COULD expect more, but I'd simply be dreaming. While any of us won't really know what's there until release (or from reading what beta testers breaking NDA say), I feel that it's a solid and genuine effort from gamesas to please the majority of fans.

No. You are wrong.

Again, they did this in Oblivion. Characters in Oblivion are way more emotional, from the start to the end of the game.

Do you remember Valen Dreth from the beginning of the game and his comments. They were different for each race and gender.

Khajiit dialogue:
Wake up, kitty kitty. That's it. There's a rat in my cell, Khajiit. A fat, tasty rat. Does the kitty want it? Is the kitty hungry? You'd better take whatever you can get in here, Khajiit. They don't feed the new prisoners. Didn't you know that? First they starve you. Then they beat you. Then, if you're lucky, they kill you. That's right. You're going to die in here!

Epic :smile:
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Poetic Vice
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:59 am

I would like the RAGE Animations for future Bethesda games. It really brought the RAGE world to life and I would love to have seen them on Skyrim characters like Cicero.
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Matt Fletcher
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:11 am

Yes exactly! the dialogue and story can only be as good as the writers that make them. If the stories were better then the text would be better thus making the acting sound better. So as it has been said before, the only problem is the writers... The dialogue needs to have as many choices as Fallout, with better animations and better story. But Id settle for better sounding characters and story before animation. Karliah's backstory was crap but the acting was good. That's why she is memorable. The writers can only get lucky so many times before someone notices the back stories don't make sense.. oh wait..
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FoReVeR_Me_N
 
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