Hmm. Arnlief hasn't been open for me either. I thought it might be because I went to the Hall of the Dead and therefore Lisabet was removed from the game until I completed the Taste of Death quest. But now I am wondering if the DLC just causes Arnlief and Sons to never open, just like you can no longer purchase the alchemy lab for Breezehome.

I have been attacked 3-4 times in my recent play through.

I noticed a couple patterns, could just be random:

- They spawn at the entrance at Riften OR the Market place (Grelka/Madesi etc..)
- All night attacks, I once reloaded a save, waited until daylight time and fast travel to Riften, no attack. At night there is one

Funny enough my first town attack the population completely decimated the Master Vampire and his thralls. I did not even have the chance to arm them, besides Mjoll. I am on master difficulty at a high level, playing the DG Faction. Really having a kick with the xbow

I honestly hadn't been to Riften once. Went to Ft DG, went to get serena, went back to Ft DG, went to Castle V, went back to Ft DG, then went straight to Riften, through the front gates, and was immediately stopped by the courier. Poor Balimund died. :<

To be clear, I'm not calling you a liar, but I honestly can't see how this is possible even when considering the possibility of bugs.

Even if you'd never been to Riften before, and even if-- somehow, Balimund managed to die before you spawned the interior of the city for the very first time (which in and of itself is one hell of a bug), you also received a courier's letter informing you of his death.

Except you don't get those letters when just any NPC dies. It has to be someone who had a good disposition towards you. This can only be achieved with Balimund by either investing in his shop or completing his favor (giving him 10 fire salts), and if you hadn't even met him yet, then how could this have been possible? Assuming you're not misremembering something, then there's at least two bugs in collision here.

Why did you waste time going through the front gates? Just fast travel, the vampires can load soon as you enter the Riften area which is outside the gates. They are happily killing your NPC's while you were just dawdling around taking the scenic route. You go to the stables they could have half the town dead before you get in the gates.

Because as he's already pointed out, he hadn't been there before. It was his first visit to Riften and you can't fast-travel to Riften before you "discover" it.


This isn't possible. Combat within a city can't occur while you're not actually in the city. Just as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread....


Precisely.

It's more of a problem with open cities such as Dawnstar/Falkreath/Shor's Stone/Riverwood/Dragon Bridge etc. More of a problem for Dawnstar/Falkreath as you trigger the cell for both of these when you enter/leave the Dark Brotherhood sanctuaries.

Of course, the vampires can attack anytime the cell is loaded in cities...the only solution of course is avoiding civilization entirely...oh...wait...

I'm so glad i have the Master time and space spells mod, it's a real saver!

Now that I actually have dawnguard I got vampire attacks and I personally see no problem with them normally the guards take them down or 1 guard ends up dying but they mop them up no problem.

As a previous poster pointed out, if you got a LOI, then you have obviously interacted with the NPC before. (Unless, of course, there is some very rare bug involved.)

But I can see one possibility for vamp attacks to happen in a city while you are not in it. From my understanding, there is a mod that makes it so you don't go through a loading screen when you enter a city. In other words, the city is not in a seperate cell from the rest of Skyrim. In that case, walled cities will have the same problems as unwalled cities, only worse. At least with an unwalled city you might be able to see that something is going on in the distance. With a walled city, you could be standing right outside the gates and not know that vampires are rampaging through the city.

If you have this mod installed I would suggest uninstalling it.

The stables are classed as part of Riften, you do not even need to go in the gates to get dead NPC's, soon as you appear at the stables they will spawn, whether you leave after that or not is not going to make any difference. And even if you sprint, it is a long way to the market area, with a loading screen in between, I never tried it but it would seem a sure way to doom any defence you might try, it is too far. And he had been there before if he got the letter, he had to have done quests in Riften. There is no way you are ever going to get dead NPC's any place you did not visit, nothing is loaded unless you visit. Whether it is part of a quest, a Dragon or bunch of vampires, the player causes the event to happen by being there, just because they never saw anything does not mean it was not happening. You make sure to appear close to where the vampires will spawn, you can make sure nothing got past without being noticed, it only takes a few seconds to check each time the area is reloaded.

I was already in agreement with most of what you've said except for the first bit. Are you saying that the stables outside the city and the city interior occupy the same cell?

Would be nice if someone could check the script out in the CS and see the exact mechanics of them now its been released for PC.

i had my first town attack, it was in Riften in the market place, i was at the main gate when it happend after fast travelling, luckily the master Vampire was dispatched by everyone else, i wouldn't have got there in time to save an NPC.

Best advice when starting Dawnguard....... Avoid towns and cities unless absolutely necessary. Other wise you had better be able to defend said town/city, as for being dead before you walked into the city. There's now way action happened within a load cell that you where not occupying, nothing happens until the player is within a load cell.

Do the vampires also enter buildings and kill people inside?

Well the first place I visited after Braggen started Dawnguard and became a VL was Riften. Not ever having been a vampire before and having heard Honeyside was good because of the back entrance, I decided to keep a low profile and try it out. I was not sure how the townspeople would react to a vampire. I went to the stables, and in the back door, dropped the stuff of and left through the back door. I lost two NPC's in Riften doing that, took a while for the courier to catch up to Braggen. They were the only NPC's ever lost due to vampire attacks.

Later when doing a side quest for the vampires to kill a disguised Dawnguard character in Riften again Braggen went to the stables trying to keep a low profile, and then went in the front gate. All hell broke lose, not only did he get the usual thieves running around, a dragon made an appearance as well. Braggen's entry to Riften was anything but low profile. it required a reload to ditch the dragon. If he went to the stables first, Riften got a dragon each time, if he went straight to Riften, no dragon. Braggen at that point still had problems with dragons appearing whenever he fast travelled outside of walled towns. But he did not usually get dragons in walled towns. He did it in two towns Riften and Windhelm, both times he went to the stables and went in the front gate. Now you tell me, are they two cells or one? Because it was going to the stables each time that caused the problem in the town, whether it was dragons or vampires.

I'm like 99% certain that the stables outside of Riften and the interior of Riften are two entirely separate cells (perhaps someone with a PC and a view of the CS could be kind enough to set the matter straight?). At any rate, I think we're veering well away from the point, so let's back up a bit here.

I was responding to a fellow who alleged that in his game, Riften got attacked by vampires before he'd even been there for the first time, which seems quite impossible. Combat shouldn't be able to occur within in a cell that you are not occupying let alone a cell that you've never set foot in before. It's possible for combat to occur while you're in the cell and for you to be completely oblivious to it (e.g. out of your line sight, far away, obstructed by a building, etc.) but it shouldn't be able to happen if you aren't physically in that cell. Furthermore, you cannot receive LOI's from dead NPC's whom you've never met and befriended, and he apparently did, which makes the story even stranger.

At this point you chimed in to ask him why he didn't just fast-travel to Riften even though a player can't fast-travel to a city they've never been to yet. All this other stuff you're talking about-- fast-travel vs not fast-travel, valid or not, it really has nothing to do with his issue. Even if the stables and Riften's interior do indeed occupy the same cell (which I find unlikely), and there was in fact a battle going on in Riften in real-time while he was still outside in the stables area, this doesn't explain how he's getting LOI's from complete strangers.

I started DG on a character with 50 hours, I'd already become balimunds buddy. But from the time I activated DG to the above incident I'd never been to Riften, nor did I fast travel to the stables or gates. I FT'd to Broken Hollow Cave (or whatever it's called) and went straight to ft dg. So I dunno, I thought cities were their own seperate cells but maybe fast traveling to surrounding locations (some pretty close) mightve set it off.

The vampire attacks should be wilderness only, and focused soley on you. When we beta tested this we complained and brought it up time after time that its a serious problem and game ender, yet Beth decided to ignore it and now almost a full month later its still the version we beta tested. Nothing has changed and Beth will likely not change it the random vampire attacks on towns and cities. It's almost as if Beth is ignoring all these threads complaining about it being a problem. Patch 1.7 is due to be out soon, and it wont change any real problem, or fix anything that has anything to do with the attacks. This is Skyrim, not Twilight, as some have said, so the game shouldnt be focues on vampires. Dawnguard is great, but the random vampire attacks destroy everything else it brings to the table. Hell, the random vampire attacks destroy the table.

Sigh. I wish you indicated that earlier. You made it sound as though you'd never been to Riften at all on that character. Especially with...

I happened to notice vamp attacks are a lot more frequent with my char I fast travel with than the others.

Worst cities for me are Markarth and Riften, they have vamp attacks almost every time I get there though no NPC's killed yet.

You went to Riften, while you had Dawnguard installed, NPC's can die before your eyes and that courier can instantly turn up with your letters if you are in a town or settlement. It would have been on that visit that they died, not earlier while you were else where.