So back when I played Oblivion guilds were the lifeline of my playtime. When I started a new character I just thought about all the quests I would need to do and how to organize that playtime. It was fun and the guild were interesting. Which is why I was interested in the guilds in Skyrim and they all starts out cool

DB: Walking in to see a CHILD wishing to recruit someone to kill a lady who runs an orphanage named Grenold the Kind who's ironically not . Then to receive the awesome "We Know message" and finally be kidnapped forced to kill someone. Awesome

The college: Seemed almost Harry Potterish talking about dorms, classes, teachers and all. It seemed overwhelming

TG: When I found out Riften was home of the Thieves Guild I got excited thinking "oh dang here we go again!" Then seeing Brynjolf approach me and set up that scam was cool.

Companions: Kinda slow but the werewolf part got interesting.

Overall I thought guilds were going to be beast but they all went downhill.

Cons of DB

-No interesting contracts. Oblivion DB there were so many cool contracts and completing bonuses made it funner. I'll never forget Whodunit? In Skyrim it feels so simplistic.

-The companions aren't as sadistic so the Sanctuary isn't as cool

and the killings dont make me feel any regret if my RP is compassionate, or make me feel thrilled if I was RP a killer. I was indifferent.

Pros of DB

-Cicero was cool and was one of the only ways of the DB being sadistic instead of just being jerks.
-Nostalgia. Return of Nightmother, Lachance, and Shadowmere.

Pretty much it for me....

Cons of Companions

-No driving motivation. I mean when Sjior died I didn't feel vengeance. Hell I didn't even know he was dead until Aea told me. All the quests felt like an obligation.

-Lack of reward. Out of all the quests I felt no reward at all. Werewolves was the only reward I felt and I got rid of it when I saw how under powered it was.

Pros of Companions
-Kodlak was cool and I did feel sad when he died and wished he could go to Sovengard.

Thats it.

Cons of College of Winterhold

-Out of all of the guilds it felt the most fast paced. One moment I'm little apprentice next thing I know I'm the worlds only hope? And I'm already Dragonborn...

- No other conflicts. What I mean by that it's strictly just Eye of Mangus business. In OB there would be other problems here and there in Mage's Guild, heres it all Eye of Mangus. Either that or...I lost my gloves...

-Lack of members. For a huge college there's only 4 apprentices and like 7 teachers. Ok...

Pros of College of Winterhold

-Its the most organized way of buying spells...

Cons of TG

-Although it was a great guild didn't feel so thievery. The MQ for TG wasn't thievery at all.

Pros of TG

-Driving motivation to improve guild
-plot twists
-interesting concept
-Most interesting characters out of all guilds.

TL;DR So thats my 2 cents on how guilds are. What are your pros and cons, general feelings, and ways they couldve improved it.

Cons of the Thieves' Guild: Everything.

The way your post is organized makes it a little hard to read, but I understand by and large what you're saying.

Guilds in Morrowind were amazing, they were long, extremely varied, and there were over a dozen of them.
Guilds in Oblivion were okay, they was one great one (Dark Brotherhood), and the rest were really mediocre but at least they had some length to them still.
Guilds in Skyrim just svck. Not nearly enough of them, not nearly long enough, not nearly interesting enough. Most of the Thieves Guild missions are just dungeon crawls.

I have to admit, the College is growing on me. At first I hated it because it seemed so silly, and as the OP said, "Harry Potter-ish".

But after grinding through the rest of the incredibly bleak experience of Skyrim, the College is one of the few "nice" places, and it sorta reminds me of the silliness of Oblivion. It's nice for playing a character who doesn't necessarily want to always be a grim badass.

Yeah, quests, specifically the Guild ones were the biggest let down of Skyrim for me.

College was way too short. You go directly from being apprentice to Arch Mage.

Festus Krex was right about the DB, they're not really a group of sadistic assassins. Just a bunch of Cutt-Throats who worship a corpse.

Companions was also very short, and like the Mage's guild it was pretty open-and-shut. Not as much, but still. You join, you do one job, you go on one mission, you do a job, you go on another mission, you do two jobs, and then you go one two more missions. Only 4 missions.

TG was alright, better than the other ones, but by the Nine was the plot awful. I feel like a 10-year-old could've made a more compelling storyline.

Shame is, those are the only guilds in the game, no Knights of the Nine, no Blades, you can't join the Penitus Oculatus because it interferes with the DB questline, no Great Houses, etc.

Guilds were pretty mediocre,at best.
Atleast better than the Oblivion guilds but Bethesda seriously haveto hire better/more writers.
I liked that the companions were werewolves, was a nice surprise. Nothing really that memorable from this questline and not much of a plot, radiant quests they give you really svck, i dunno i joined them with my first charecter at about level 3 and finnished around level 40 so don't recall it beeing either particularly good or bad, faily entertaining but not very compelling.

Was very happy with the mages guild at first, felt like a mage doing what i'd expect a studdying mage to be doing, until for the umpteenth time in this game series were you turn out to be the frickin chosen one and reach the possition of arch mage by defualt, didn't feel like i earned it at all and felt very unsatisfied by the end of it. Quest were decent enough tho and i enjoyed all the side quests along with the Midden.

Thieves guild was alright but not enough stealing half way through, and seriously, forced theif followers that svck at stealth? Come on... But liked doing the raidaint quests when i happend to be in the same city doing other things, and i enjoyed expanding the guild.

About 300hours spent in this game and i just started the DB so can't comment on much, besides i'm glad they're not written like the target audience is 14 year old goths with emotional problems this time around

Real Progression is one of the main solutions to the Skyrim Guild problem. You don't really have it in Skyrim, it's basically rank 1, rank 2 and then the final rank at rank 5, skipping rank 3 and 4 due to the ridiculous 11-11-11 date. The College of Winterhold is a perfect example and so is the companions. The Dark brotherhood doesn't really have that problem because you become the guildmaster after the 2nd mission, it's a unique situation not counting the other guilds.

Oblivion at least had progression with their guilds unlike Skyrim where your the guildmaster after 4 missions. In Oblivion it was at least 15 quests before you became the GM and I haven't even pointed to Morrowind yet, with the exception of locking the guilds out also does it right too.

I don't mind the 'guilds' in Skyrim, but I don't really see them in that light in the first place. The Companions are cool if you stop thinking of them as a guild and accept them as sort of a mercenary/adventurer's 'lodge' with a long history and traditions. The college is a smallish magic school in a land sort of hostile to mages.

Becoming the leader of one of these small clubs isn't a matter of 'rising through the ranks' because there are no ranks. The Companions don't have a leader, nobody is in charge. The Harbinger is their most respected member, who dispenses advice, but he's not anything like one of the guildleaders of previous games. What the player accomplishes in the Companions quest is worthy of that honorary title.

While I admit the questlines for the 'guilds' was depressingly short, the organizations themselves (and our paths to leadership in them) aren't so bad if we accept what they are rather than what we expected them to be.

The guilds weren't that good. The companions was the worse in my opinion. I was hoping for a fighters guild where you were able to help the people, and not help cure the companions from a curse/gift.

The best I can say is that im glad that the tg were actually theives and not robin hoods in desguise. At lest it felt like a place were an [censored] or [censored] would fit in, were as in ob, I felt like goodie twoshoes stealing stuff. Dont get me wrong, I liked the ob quests, iys just thru it all I didnt feel lile a cutthroat more like robin hood.
The db.......sigh, u can see it coming and really ur gonna use the same plot twist? Eh it was enjoyable, but not really all that. Where are my poisens apples and incentive for beimg creative?


I just wished that Bethesda didnt think they just have to rush thru these quests and hold our hands. Its like they thought going mainstream meant most customers attention spans are really short and that most wouldnt have two brain cells to rub a thought out. Sry,, just longing for the days when im actually challenged and have to think again in this series.

Remember, Guilds were handled by RS, was bland, so Beth quickly wrote up some quests, however long it took really isn't known

What I want to know is why didn't they figure

Storyline Quest > Side missions > RS

instead of RS > something > Something

Radiants are used just for extra gold, to me, and do nothing more for the guilds themselves.

It was a test of a new system. While I don't think that completely randomizing guild quests was ever a good idea, at least Beth figured that out before the release date. I'm sure they learned that lesson-most quests are better handwritten

I don't really rate the Skyrim guilds against the others because Skyrim's guilds were something that was rushed in when they figured out the RS system wouldn't work, instead of something that had a lot of time put into it.
On the subject of radiant story, I think that it could have made Skyrim's guilds better than the guilds in previous games. I absolutely hated the fact that once you got through a guild questline in Morrowind or Oblivion, that was it. You never did ANYTHING at all for the guild-they just basically shut down operations once you got the top seat. Not saying Skyrim's guilds are better, but they easily could have been

I agree that RS would have been GREAT to supplement the Guilds, but some one apparently thought initially that making them the Core of the Guilds was a good idea. Having RS missions as a way to -rank up- -train- -RP outlet that tailors specific missions to your char- I wholeheartedly feel would have been the superior approach coupled with Side missions and the main Storyline.

If they take that approach with the guilds in the next game(heck, even the stuff they add in DLCs, if there's any new factions that size), then they'll blow everything out of the water.
Plus, it adds the variability element that Morrowind had with its quest lines-you could choose from a bunch of mini-questlines on the way to the top one(s). RS missions can easily fill that gap-just have several quesgivers that each offer a few unique types of RS quests. I have some ideas about the DB for example, but I have yet to test them(stupid computer BSOD has been getting in the way of my gaming for a while now)
Still, they need to be a bit more interesting. Example: have a radiant quest type like the Oblivion DB quest to escape Gromm undetected after killing Baenlin(I think that's how you spell his name). If you get caught, you lose a huge part of your reward

I've yet to get past the first quest in the Mages college.....tears me up with boredom....*sigh* lol xD a matter of fact I have yet to finish TG either. I've only finished DB and companions...companions was awful.....DB was alot longer, which was nice, but hardly better. Setting in motion....or lack there of....because of the final kill....i expected...idk what. To much I guess. I have no desire to do the College questline, which basically kills mage characters for me.

Most of the guilds were fine but the companions could have used a better story and quests.

TG is terrible.

I approve of this topic, because the Faction lines are perhaps overall Skyrim's greatest failure. Prepare for way too much thought.

The Companions
Pros:

1- Unique identity to Skyrim.
2- Radiant Story really shines in generating tasks fitting for an unambiguous Mercenary Faction
3- Radiant Story Events that spawn Companions out in the world, to simulate an actual presence of the faction.

Cons:

1- Lycanthropy a required aspect, as well as only being tied to The Companions as an exclusive feature.
2- Railroaded into Progression
3- Poor pacing with the plotline
4- Poor pacing of the Plotline means that certain events (Skjor, Kodlak) don't have the Narrative punch they think they should have
5- Uninteresting Rewards for continued Radiant content (Excluding Hircine Totems).
6- Poor structure when receiving quests (Radiant -> Story -> Radiant -> Story).
7- No option to bring a Sword Brother or Sister on Radiant quests. Considering that's part of The Companions Identity...

Potential Solutions

1- Lycanthropy should have not been exclusive to the Companions (Sinding doesn't count, you it's a very Isolated incident). A great Middle-Ground would have been Lycanthropy functioning similar to Bloodmoon (Infection and uncontrolled transformations) and following the Werewolf paths of the Companions then granted you the ability to control it. (Similar to what Sinding was attempting with Hircine's ring)

2- Progress within the guild is forced upon you, which wouldn't be a bad thing if it didn't happen so suddenly and without option to delay (Dark Brotherhood for example). An option to reject admittance into The Circle while still being able to perform radiant quests would have been appreciated.

3,4- The Companion's Plotline is poorly paced. We aren't even given time to develop a level of attachment to the guild before events try to capitalize on care that isn't even there. This is doubly frustrating because the idea that the "Bonds of Brotherhood" the Companions is supposed to foster could have really driven a great narrative if it the ball wasn't dropped so fast. More contact with Kodlak and a few Missions with Skjor as a Sword-Brother would have provided the opportunity.

5- Gold can only get you so far. Continuing to reward high-level players with Gold is literally pointless. The Thieves Guild handles this admirably, by giving players gold, and unique rewards for completing a certain amount of Radiant quests (Based on an in-town point tally). Sadly, no other Guild capitalized on this wonderful idea that is already demonstrated in-game

6- This is another section in which the Companions can learn from the Thieves Guild. Keeping plot and "Grind" quests seperate at least allow players the opportunity to identify with a guild, before or in complete absence of the main plot of said guild. This certainly wouldn't work for every faction in the game, but there are fewer places where it's inappropriate than where it isn't.

7- Considering how pivotal the identity of having "Sword Siblings" is in The Companions, it's rather odd I can't bring any of them along on Radiant quests, at least until we assume the title of Harbinger.



College of Winterhold
Pros

1- "First Lessons" quest sets an extremely high bar for this faction. Combining everything that is a Mages Collective into a gameplay and introcutionary segment was truly a thing of beauty, only rivaled by the amazing intro to Skyrim itself.
2- Less politically charged than Cyrodiils mage's guild, which was perhaps fitting for Cyrodiil in retrospect. The isolationist and academic nature of The College is reflected in their "Just don't kill eachother" attitude.
3- "Master" Spell quests.

Cons

1- Pacing. We just learned our first two spells, and all of a sudden we've discovered a fragment of a god?
2- Certain events a little too similar to The Companions. (Archmarge, Whats-her-face) with all the narrative punch of Nicholas Cage's performance in The Wicker Man.
3- Not enough "Magic". Cast your first two spells, and then broadaxe your way through the rest.
4- "Forced" to join this Guild for the main story. (Workarounds possible I know)

Potential Solutions

1,2- Just like the Companions, were just aren't given enough time to actually care what's going on, so when things start happening that the game believes we should care about, start happening, Skyrim insults itself and the players. Pace the quests better, even if we have to go look for mushrooms. "First Lessons" provides a great framework for "Introductory" quests to help solidify our identity as "A mage". Practices in Conjuration, and learning the Dangers of irresponsible use by clearing out a location full of unbound Daedra, discussion on the ethical and practical uses of Illusion, and then an attempt to "Persuade" the Jarl of Winterhold to ease up on the college. I could go on for every school.

3- Not enough "Magic" in the College refers to the a near lack of necessity or even incentive to utilize the Arcane arts. Even in Combat, this could have been solved by creating enemies very strong to physical damage, but incredibly weak to magical attacks. A few of the puzzles work pretty well, but in the end, they just seem unnatural as an obvious "Well see, you're casting something" moment, instead of actual incentive.

4- I appreciate that Skyrim doesn't ignore the existence of the main groups in the region the same way Oblivion did. But forcing you to join the college can really screw with anyone roleplaying a character that doesn't use magic (Which is 2/3 of the character archetypes). A workaround exists (Simply trial-and-error your way to Septimus) but that's not really practical for most people. Erinthur didn't have any trouble going to the Inn, I think the orc could stand to get out of the Library for once. It's not like all the locks aren't locked with unpickable doors.



That's all I can really do right now. The Thieves Guild alone would take up 5 or more pages, but the Thieves Guild does a few things right as well, which I've already mentioned as examples for the other guilds.

The Dark Brotherhood does a lot right, and is the stand-out of the Guilds. It's not perfect, and it's sad that to get a Rewarding storyline experience, you have to slowly depopulate Skyrim, but whatever.

These were the four things (one for each Guild) that could have been done to make me a much happier camper:

Last two posters both great ideas that coulda helped the guilds lol