So I'm not really knowledgable regarding the Nordic naming system, and "clans" as it were, and I have a few questions because I have a very large Skyrim mod that I am working on, and getting names right is important for immersion.

So, in Whiterun, we see the "Battle-Born" and "Grey-mane" clans. So, those "clan" of Nords are probably from a specific bloodline or "village", and that is the family name, correct?

So everyone in clan Battle-Born is said to be "Ysilda Battle-Born", "Bjork Battle-Born", etc, correct?

If so (hypothetically), when Bjork from clan, say..."Snow-Hammer" marries a woman, Ysilda, from clan.."White-Claw", does the Ysilda then become Ysilda Snow-Hammer, because she married into the Snow-Hammer clan, or does it not work like that? Or does she remain Ysilda White-Claw?

Also, Ulfric Stormcloak, is his clan name Stormcloak? So in essence, the Stormcloaks in the game, Ulfrics army, they are adopted into his "family" via war? Like, is the stormcloak army named after Clan Stormcloak, Ulfrics clan? Since that's his last name?

Very good point. First of all i think they are really not affiliaated with any village, the clan started and then they started living in whiterun for example. Other thing is i think when you marry, lets say a battle-born and if you are a woman you have to take the battle-born name because you are now a part of their clan.
Now about Ulfric i really don't know if his name really is Stormcloak or if that's a nickname

So when a woman marries into a clan, she takes his clan name? That's a fact?

Not to my knowledge, no. He's just postulating.
They don't as far as I can recall ever get very in depth how Nordic naming conventions work.
Though, I'm fairly certain that Stormcloak is in fact Ulfric's surname. And that calling the rebel's "Stormcloaks" is a way of saying he adopted them, metaphorically at least.

Eorlund Gray-Mane is brother to Vignar Gray-Mane, so we know that must be their original name. Eorlund's wife is called Fralia Gray-Mane, so unless he married his sister - not likely - I would say that yes, the woman takes her husband's family name when she marries.

However, I think that rule only is applied in the major clans. Annekke Crag-Jumper's husband has another surname, for example, but they are ordinary people, not nobility, so their surnames are probably nicknames and not hereditary. At least not yet.

Stormcloak _should_ be a family name since Ulfric clearly comes from a noble family (his father was jarl before him and so on), but I'm not sure. Actually, I don't thunk any of the jarls in the beginning of the game has a surname that is clearly a family name. Possibly Idgrod Ravencrone and Laila Law-Giver, but their children aren't called by those names.

After all, Ulfric _does_ walk around in a thunder-colored cloak, so he might just as well have gotten his name from his cloak as well the other way around.

I'm gonna guess Ulfric's last name is a nickname somebody stuck on him, but there's no way to be sure.

I'll also guess that women take their husband's family name when they marry.

Pretty sure that Stormcloak is Ulfric's actual surname.

His soldiers and supporters are called Stormcloaks because they are members of a movement/rebellion led by a guy named Stormcloak, not because they have been officially adopted into his clan or family. It's possible that they started calling themselves that but I've also read that it was the opposition that started referring to secessionists as "Stormcloaks" and it just stuck.

The latter seems more likely to me because I doubt that his supporters would just start calling themselves "Stormcloaks"; that would be like claiming a familial relationship that doesn't exist, pretty serious business when the family in question is part of Skyrim's royal/noble elite. But I can totally see the opposition trying to use it as a slur and then it catches on. I mean, it might be meant as a slur by those who oppose him but to his followers being called that would seem like an honor so they'd be proud of it and probably start using it themselves.

Anyway, "Stormcloak" as a surname belongs to Ulfric's family, "Stormcloak" as a poliitcal affiliation is a different thing entirely.

Edit: or as postulated above, Stormcloak could be a name that was given to Ulfric at some point but was not passed down from his forebears. Given his position (royalty) I find it more likely that it's a family name, but who knows?


My idle question would be, if "Stormcloak" is a name that was given to Ulfric, by whom was it given and when?

I think its based on the Celtic Clans.

Basically one family ruled an area and peasants who wanted protection took on this families surname and became clan members (I only have a fairly limited understanding of how this works, but there's bound to be plenty of stuff on the internet about it!)

Awesome, thanks for all the replies folks.

it work like a last nama example:alex snow-storm marries jenny mcrigth went they marry jenny take the last name of his husben in this case the clan name so now she is jenny snow-storm.
and yes the last name of ulfric is Stormcloak

I'm not sure it's fair to assume that the woman always takes the husband's surname (if a surname exists) when a marriage occurs. First off, It would imply the kind of patriarchal mindset that doesn't seem to exist among the Nords of Skyrim, where gender equality is apparently the rule rather than the exception. Second, even in some traditionally patriarchal systems where a spouse taking the marriage partner's surname was the norm, it wasn't always the husband's name that prevailed. Sometimes if the man married into a wealthier family, or one with more influence and connections, or one that ranked higher on the ladder in terms of nobility, he would take his wife's name in order to become a member of her clan rather than the other way around.

Ralof says that the Stormcloaks began calling themselves by that name because Ulfric was their leader so they took his name.

Norseman would generally be named for an honored ancestor or other famous person for their first name and were called by a patronymic for their last (sometimes by the mother's name), but they could earn a nickname through their deeds or because of some characteristic they were known for. I think Nords are similar in that they inherit a family name, but can earn a nickname. Sort of like the Stormcloaks start calling the dragonborn Ice-Veins, etc., eventually Stormblade. Hjalti Early-Beard becomes Talos Stormcrown, etc. This is probably how women like Anneke Crag-Jumper end up with their own name which sticks even when they marry- or so I would guess.

That's true, the Anglo Saxons did it that way. I think people are basing it on Fralia Grey-Mane. If she was also nobility, she might have kept her own name.

That is of course true. After all, lots of Nord don't seem to have any surnames at all, they are just "Ralof, of Riverwood" (like it in most of Europe until quite recently).

Those are very good points.

I imagine it works like this:

A Nord becomes wellknown and is given an epithet, like Gray-Mane (obviously an old man, rare among warriors). Sometimes, his descendants take up that name and grow into a clan. Other times, it is a one-time thing, and his descendants seek a name for themselves.

On the subject of Ulfric, I thought I remembered someone in Skyrim mentioning that he picked up the name Stormcloak in the Reach when he was fighting the Forsworn uprising.

I think the bottom line is that naming goes by the Nord way: "I'm a Nord and I do what I like."

I don't remember anything like that. It's possible- maybe because he shouted the Forsworn off the walls.

The closest thing I've heard to that is that his supporters started calling themselves "Stormcloaks" - or began being called that by others - after the Markarth Incident, the implication being that the "Stormcloak movement" first got rolling in the aftermath of what happened there and the fallout from it (Thalmor arriving to enforce the WGC, Ulfric and others going to prison, etc.). I have not seen anything indicating that Ulfric himself picked up the epithet at that time... altho in the absence of evidence that it's a family surname or was picked up earlier it's certainly possible. Markarth surely would've been where he "made his name" as a Nord military leader and person of note in his own right in some sense of the word.

Also speaking of marriage, at least in Ysgramor's times, there were different kinds of Wives and husbands. Hearth-ones, Shield-ones, and so one.Oh I forget the source. One of the February 2011(2?) MK works.