Recall, Refund & Start Over : Fallout: New Vegas

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:42 am

And what of those poor folks that dont have Xbox live, internet access, ect? I guess they're just going to have to take it huh?

I find it hard to believe that many people who own A 360 or PS3 cannot find an internet connection. If you want it you can find it, I am sure. You could probably ask your local video game store to borrow their net for a second to download the patch. Especially on Xbox as the patches only take a few seconds.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:05 am

And to follow up on everything... I tried playing again tonight. Gave me another crash and at the moment I am getting the dreaded red circle of death on my 360 power button. Did New Vegas just torch my Xbox? Amazing.

No it did not

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:09 am

To Whom It May Concern @ Bethesda,

Since the title of your newest Fallout adventure is Fallout: New Vegas, I'll use some card terminology to kick off this open letter: It's time to fold em'. The gaming community, along with millions of adoring Fallout fans, have been scorned. We are nothing but your jaded ex-lover at this point. We have all been betrayed. Months of hype, the promises of past problems fixed and the lure of a new Fallout adventure lured us all back... only to have you stomp on our hearts, douse our souls in gasoline and throw a match. Right about now we are watching you fade into black, a sly and evil grin the last things we get to see before the flames silence us forever.

Maybe you tried your best, I don't know... all I know is that this has to be the worst game release I have ever witnessed. And it's true across all platforms. Every person with their name tied to this game should be ashamed. Quests don't complete, saves get deleted, DLC doesn't work, characters vanish, audio goes in and out... and the freezing. Oh my god... the freezing. I was 4 hours in when it started for me. I loved every second of this game until the freezing began. It started in Primm. Inside the casino where the town sheriff is being held. I hacked the computer and cleaned out the storage area... came out and began fighting some convicts and that was it. The game does not move past this point. Freezes over and over and over and over. Clearing the cache doesn't help. Whatever was in this first patch for 360 doesn't help. Basically, you created a game that I fell in love with and then you came into my house and shot my Xbox 360 with a shotgun at point blank range.

Where do we go from here??? My suggestions:

1. Recall the game and release a letter of apology to all of us that you have betrayed. We all make mistakes in life... and it's okay to stand up sometimes and say "I'm sorry guys... I F'd up".
2. Refund every one of us who gave money to this game... or at least work out a deal with distributors like Gamestop, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc... so that they can refund us our money.
3. Start over. Who cares if it takes 6 months or 6 weeks or 6 whatever... take a look at every second of the game, find out what the hell is causing these issues, address them and re-release the game. Look, right now your reputation in the gaming community is taking a serious beating. What will you do to save it????

In the end, I am just one voice. Do I expect anything to change in the gaming industry? No I do not. You guys have deadlines and I understand that. Unfortunately it is now okay to release a crappy product to the masses, because things like Xbox live allow the developer to fix the game at a later date. If you think this is the right thing to do, then I hope you and everyone else in the industry takes a long, hard look in the mirror.

I just can't believe this game was released like this. Sigh... if only there was a way to patch a companies lack of business ethics.

I'm out.

This sounds like a break up letter. :laugh:

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:39 am

OP - you are absolutely right... However, the truth is that developers (betesda or obsidian - they're both chasing cash over fans) can do whatever they like in regards to "release broken software in time for school holidays/Xmas and patch later". (most consumers won't play the game long enough to encounter problems)

Unfortunately, the people who vocalise their issues with bugs are nothing in comparison with the 4.7m+ consumers of the game. From, the pov of the developers they are geniuses... Just grease up, bend over and take it like the rest of us.

I wish we lived in a world where game developing was an art and devs had pride, but we don't!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:17 am

To Whom It May Concern @ Bethesda,

Since the title of your newest Fallout adventure is Fallout: New Vegas, I'll use some card terminology to kick off this open letter: It's time to fold em'. The gaming community, along with millions of adoring Fallout fans, have been scorned. We are nothing but your jaded ex-lover at this point. We have all been betrayed. Months of hype, the promises of past problems fixed and the lure of a new Fallout adventure lured us all back... only to have you stomp on our hearts, douse our souls in gasoline and throw a match. Right about now we are watching you fade into black, a sly and evil grin the last things we get to see before the flames silence us forever.

Maybe you tried your best, I don't know... all I know is that this has to be the worst game release I have ever witnessed. And it's true across all platforms. Every person with their name tied to this game should be ashamed. Quests don't complete, saves get deleted, DLC doesn't work, characters vanish, audio goes in and out... and the freezing. Oh my god... the freezing. I was 4 hours in when it started for me. I loved every second of this game until the freezing began. It started in Primm. Inside the casino where the town sheriff is being held. I hacked the computer and cleaned out the storage area... came out and began fighting some convicts and that was it. The game does not move past this point. Freezes over and over and over and over. Clearing the cache doesn't help. Whatever was in this first patch for 360 doesn't help. Basically, you created a game that I fell in love with and then you came into my house and shot my Xbox 360 with a shotgun at point blank range.

Where do we go from here??? My suggestions:

1. Recall the game and release a letter of apology to all of us that you have betrayed. We all make mistakes in life... and it's okay to stand up sometimes and say "I'm sorry guys... I F'd up".
2. Refund every one of us who gave money to this game... or at least work out a deal with distributors like Gamestop, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc... so that they can refund us our money.
3. Start over. Who cares if it takes 6 months or 6 weeks or 6 whatever... take a look at every second of the game, find out what the hell is causing these issues, address them and re-release the game. Look, right now your reputation in the gaming community is taking a serious beating. What will you do to save it????

In the end, I am just one voice. Do I expect anything to change in the gaming industry? No I do not. You guys have deadlines and I understand that. Unfortunately it is now okay to release a crappy product to the masses, because things like Xbox live allow the developer to fix the game at a later date. If you think this is the right thing to do, then I hope you and everyone else in the industry takes a long, hard look in the mirror.

I just can't believe this game was released like this. Sigh... if only there was a way to patch a companies lack of business ethics.

I'm out.

You are just one voice, so don't speak on behalf of the entire gaming community. Recalls and refunds? I really hope you don't think those are plausible suggestions.

The game was released with a lot of bugs, but they are fixing them as fast as they can. Whining and making stupid topics like this won't help a thing.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:08 am

Considering the majority of customers haven't had problems enough to complain about on here I don't see where saying "Recall all the games" is even helpful to the conversation. It's not like the game doesn't run.. it's got a few bugs that mess things up to the point they need to be patched to continue (yes that svcks but it also happens with other technology too.. it's the price of early adoption). Yes Bethesda and Obsidian probably should have tested more (and that's mainly Obsidian's fault for underestimating the time required for the project. Yes it may be that Bethesda could make fallout 3 in "xx" time frame but that doesn't mean someone who's not used that technology and doesn't know the ins and outs and little quirks of it will be able to. It's something Obsidian's project managers will learn for next time (and it's why they get paid so much if they get it right cause it's basically learning how to foresee the future when it comes to estimating project times). There's -always- more testing that could have been done. It's a tradeoff between value for testing (If all the ads have been paid for and say "xx date" is it going to cost more to push the date back then it would to simply fix the game post release and have a few updates within the first month to fix the big bugs? unlikely)

For the people who look back to the early 90s and go "Why did this game not have any bugs?".. look at how big that game was.. half the games back then would fit in a 30mb footprint.. The largest N64 cartridge available only held 64 MEGAbytes. Fallout: New Vegas is on a dual layer disc, that means the assets and code have around 8.5 GIGAbytes (You could fit just about 133 N64 games on one DVD). That means the level of complexity is exponentially higher and there's more to check. Fallout: NV adds to this by having so many variables in choices and tracking and locations and possibilities.

The only way to really have tested this game to the seemingly expected level on here would be to have taken an extra year once it was completed and then test the game with 1000 testers who would then report bugs, fix bugs, have 1000 new testers (you see once you have tested something once and know how you're supposed to do it you'll be less likely to perform totally unexpected attempts at completing the puzzle)..and so on for that year. In the end the game wouldn't make a profit from the testers and developers and everyone still needing to be paid and the game being pushed back a year.. The most helpful thing you can do at this point is not scream at the developers because you have to wait a week for someone else to report your bug, it get reproduced, diagnosed and fixed while you complain about this being 'the worst game release ever' (I personally can think of much much worse). You're not losing money by putting the game down for a week or two (or however long it takes). You weren't paying to have the game released on a deadline, you were paying for the product when it was released and if you wanted it bug free then you'd be paying what NASA pays for their programmers, a heck of a lot more than what Bethesda/Obsidian pay.

-Computim
A non-game programmer from another mother who understands the hatred and whose heaven consists of being able to tell gamers "No you hated our last game so you don't get to play in our ballpark anymore".

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:16 am

To Whom It May Concern @ Bethesda,

Since the title of your newest Fallout adventure is Fallout: New Vegas, I'll use some card terminology to kick off this open letter: It's time to fold em'. The gaming community, along with millions of adoring Fallout fans, have been scorned. We are nothing but your jaded ex-lover at this point. We have all been betrayed. Months of hype, the promises of past problems fixed and the lure of a new Fallout adventure lured us all back... only to have you stomp on our hearts, douse our souls in gasoline and throw a match. Right about now we are watching you fade into black, a sly and evil grin the last things we get to see before the flames silence us forever.

Maybe you tried your best, I don't know... all I know is that this has to be the worst game release I have ever witnessed. And it's true across all platforms. Every person with their name tied to this game should be ashamed. Quests don't complete, saves get deleted, DLC doesn't work, characters vanish, audio goes in and out... and the freezing. Oh my god... the freezing. I was 4 hours in when it started for me. I loved every second of this game until the freezing began. It started in Primm. Inside the casino where the town sheriff is being held. I hacked the computer and cleaned out the storage area... came out and began fighting some convicts and that was it. The game does not move past this point. Freezes over and over and over and over. Clearing the cache doesn't help. Whatever was in this first patch for 360 doesn't help. Basically, you created a game that I fell in love with and then you came into my house and shot my Xbox 360 with a shotgun at point blank range.

Where do we go from here??? My suggestions:

1. Recall the game and release a letter of apology to all of us that you have betrayed. We all make mistakes in life... and it's okay to stand up sometimes and say "I'm sorry guys... I F'd up".
2. Refund every one of us who gave money to this game... or at least work out a deal with distributors like Gamestop, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc... so that they can refund us our money.
3. Start over. Who cares if it takes 6 months or 6 weeks or 6 whatever... take a look at every second of the game, find out what the hell is causing these issues, address them and re-release the game. Look, right now your reputation in the gaming community is taking a serious beating. What will you do to save it????

In the end, I am just one voice. Do I expect anything to change in the gaming industry? No I do not. You guys have deadlines and I understand that. Unfortunately it is now okay to release a crappy product to the masses, because things like Xbox live allow the developer to fix the game at a later date. If you think this is the right thing to do, then I hope you and everyone else in the industry takes a long, hard look in the mirror.

I just can't believe this game was released like this. Sigh... if only there was a way to patch a companies lack of business ethics.

I'm out.

I do not at all agree with the "recall/refund" idea of this at all, simply cause it would never happen. We live in a greedy society where the amount of money made on a crap product means more than the quality of said product. I am so very disappointed in the fact that this game is basically unplayable due to the glitches and everyone is ok with waiting for a patch. There should e no need to wait for a patch. Obsidian should have properly tested this game prior to releasing it. Anyone who will just roll over and let this fly is in a sad state. I pay for a product to be able to use it and the only use I have for New Vegas right now is as a paperweight. So don't tell me not to be mad or to not complain. Oh the patches are coming blah blah blah. If they put out a well crafted and tested game form the start none of us would be on here right now.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:04 am

I do not at all agree with the "recall/refund" idea of this at all, simply cause it would never happen. We live in a greedy society where the amount of money made on a crap product means more than the quality of said product. I am so very disappointed in the fact that this game is basically unplayable due to the glitches and everyone is ok with waiting for a patch. There should e no need to wait for a patch. Obsidian should have properly tested this game prior to releasing it. Anyone who will just roll over and let this fly is in a sad state. I pay for a product to be able to use it and the only use I have for New Vegas right now is as a paperweight. So don't tell me not to be mad or to not complain. Oh the patches are coming blah blah blah. If they put out a well crafted and tested game form the start none of us would be on here right now.

I wasn't aware Bethesda or Obsidian warranted the bug-free on release part of the game. Could you show me where in the licence that was?

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:16 am

Watch for my video reply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W-6f7vljOw

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:16 pm

I gotta wonder how many people having these problems are the same people that took advantage of unlimited xp/caps glitches. I'm not saying that's the cause as I don't know, but you have to wonder if it's not a contributing factor.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:47 pm

Considering the majority of customers haven't had problems enough to complain about on here I don't see where saying "Recall all the games" is even helpful to the conversation. It's not like the game doesn't run.. it's got a few bugs that mess things up to the point they need to be patched to continue (yes that svcks but it also happens with other technology too.. it's the price of early adoption). Yes Bethesda and Obsidian probably should have tested more (and that's mainly Obsidian's fault for underestimating the time required for the project. Yes it may be that Bethesda could make fallout 3 in "xx" time frame but that doesn't mean someone who's not used that technology and doesn't know the ins and outs and little quirks of it will be able to. It's something Obsidian's project managers will learn for next time (and it's why they get paid so much if they get it right cause it's basically learning how to foresee the future when it comes to estimating project times). There's -always- more testing that could have been done. It's a tradeoff between value for testing (If all the ads have been paid for and say "xx date" is it going to cost more to push the date back then it would to simply fix the game post release and have a few updates within the first month to fix the big bugs? unlikely)

For the people who look back to the early 90s and go "Why did this game not have any bugs?".. look at how big that game was.. half the games back then would fit in a 30mb footprint.. The largest N64 cartridge available only held 64 MEGAbytes. Fallout: New Vegas is on a dual layer disc, that means the assets and code have around 8.5 GIGAbytes (You could fit just about 133 N64 games on one DVD). That means the level of complexity is exponentially higher and there's more to check. Fallout: NV adds to this by having so many variables in choices and tracking and locations and possibilities.

The only way to really have tested this game to the seemingly expected level on here would be to have taken an extra year once it was completed and then test the game with 1000 testers who would then report bugs, fix bugs, have 1000 new testers (you see once you have tested something once and know how you're supposed to do it you'll be less likely to perform totally unexpected attempts at completing the puzzle)..and so on for that year. In the end the game wouldn't make a profit from the testers and developers and everyone still needing to be paid and the game being pushed back a year.. The most helpful thing you can do at this point is not scream at the developers because you have to wait a week for someone else to report your bug, it get reproduced, diagnosed and fixed while you complain about this being 'the worst game release ever' (I personally can think of much much worse). You're not losing money by putting the game down for a week or two (or however long it takes). You weren't paying to have the game released on a deadline, you were paying for the product when it was released and if you wanted it bug free then you'd be paying what NASA pays for their programmers, a heck of a lot more than what Bethesda/Obsidian pay.

-Computim
A non-game programmer from another mother who understands the hatred and whose heaven consists of being able to tell gamers "No you hated our last game so you don't get to play in our ballpark anymore".

Obviously this is an impassioned post that's exaggerated to make a point, Bethesda dropped that ball, did not test the game properly and it has been over a week since it's been released and there are several glitches I know of that independent bodies have had to come up with that the 'pc patch', did not fix. The progress of computer technology has nothing to do with it, there are a million examples I can make of extremely complicated software that companies release on time that does what it promises, you simply do not release products that don't work. It's pretty straightforward.
I definitely understand moderate thinking, but half of these comments sound like they're coming from people on Bethesda's pay roll. Criticism is not a bad thing, it's what makes things better. All the trolling to 'get a grip' and 'stop complaining' is just as trite as hearing rednecks talk about how you "shouldn't disrespect our leader" back in the Bush days. Maybe it just brings up bad memories...