Hey everyone, this is the build i'm going to be aiming for when i grab a few more levels.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74743

The perks i've placed basically allow for the idea of a "Tank" based character, with the heavy armor, sword & board, the archery is placed in there for picking off some foes from large groups before getting in close, to make life a bit easier as i'm playing on a higher difficulty than average.

The smithing is there to.. well, make my own gear & upgrade it.

The enchanting is there to be used, not abused, i will not be using enchanting boosting gear (same for smithing).

Sneaking is there to let me stealth around should i get in a sneaky mood, sometimes this has proven to be enjoyable, sneaking up behind a foe then smashing him round the back with a large sword while in heavy armor.

Alchemy, for the health potions & stat boosting potions (Damage/block/resistance, not +20% Smithing, etc)

Pickpocketing merely for extra pockets.



However, with the max level being 81, i've got 5 perk points left, and i've gone over and over what each perk i've missed grants, and i just can't think of anything that would be decent to take, i don't intend to use magic, so Alteration, restoration, destruction, Conjuration & illusion are out.

Any ideas?

Doesn't getting to level 81 take like a million years?

Yea, I wouldn't plan an 80-perk build. Think 50 or 60 would be more "realistic" in terms of what perks you'll ACTUALLY use.

Here's a few thoughts about this build:

I would plan the build up to 50 only, because things go a lot slower after 50. Here's a level 50 build for my idea of a "Tank," http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74787

• Restoration is included simply for the "Avoid Death Perk"
  
• Alteration is included only for the magic resistance

I don't like all of the exceptions your making (sneaking, pickpocketing, etc). You'll have more fun if you stick to a core class and restrict yourself appropriately. Also, I don't reccomend perking out all 3 crafting skills because the game become disappointingly easy if you do.

Level 50 Build: http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74801
Level 81 Build: http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74807

Forget Heavy Armor, Light is better.

Since you need 90 archery for those skills already maybe the power shot skill so you will be able to get a few more shots off and have time to switch back to sword and board.

Also, I would skip the dragon armor as daedric is better.

...what? That 50 build is awful.

If you aren't going to use Magic how will you reach level 81?

yeah speech perks, if you take about 5 of em you're a master trader, all the merchants have more gold and they will buy anything you have, stolen or not and they all with buy everything.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74833

I trimmed out a lot of bad perks.

Also cut some from heavy armor because you'll pass the cap without all the bonuses.

The swordsman perks add minimal damage (crit's only add base damage of weapon... and on 20% of the time makes it pretty sad for 3 perks)

The right branh in enchanting is worthless.

In Alchemy the first perk and benefactor are the only worthy ones

Smithing.... unless you REALLY want dragon armor... you can get by with only Arcane smithing to be honest.

I dropped bow crit perk as well in favor of stagger and faster shooting. Better increase to DPS and the Stagger can stop dragon breath attacks and is all around just useful.

I added crit charge... the crit is auto, and while the damage bonus is minimal, it is still a useful attack option.

I also maxed out block... faster movement while blocking and shield charge can be priceless against enemies at a distance firing on you.

That said.... This is still a lvl 62 build after trimming the fat...

I would probably drop Alchemy and Smithing if you want enchanting. You can enchant yourself crafting gear that will let you smith legendary equipment and craft +100% strength potions and save yourself a LOT of perk points. (15 actually, lowering the build to level 47 which is definitely and easily achievable) then... work on those crafting trees if you want dragon armor, or even more powerful potions.

However, I think 4 points in Restoration would give more bang for your buck. Apprentice & Adept Resotration w/ Regen and Respite perks. This will give you a 75 point Fast heal, @ half magicka cost, that also restores Stamina (which you'll be draining a LOT between bashing and power attacks)

Of course, a Life & Stam siphon weapon could replace that need (You can even get one as a reward if you're willing to put your character through the thieves guild questline)

Oh... and I dropped stealth & pickpocket entirely... didn't seem to fit your character. Just use the Steed Stone (South West of Winterhold in the mountains) until you get the no armor ecumberance perk and your guy isn't sneaky... he's a tank.

No.

Smithing
- Dragonscale (best available armor for Light)
- Daedric Sword (best available weapon for 1H)

Enchanting
- These are the only Enchant Perks you need for any build

Alchemy
- These are the only Alchemy Perks you need for any build

Blocking
- You don't need to Block really. The point is to use your Shield to Bash and lockdown targets.

Light Armor
- Stamina is your friend. You can easily hit cap especially with Smithing wearing Light Armor. You have a Shield as well, so it is very easy.

Sneaking
- Muffle and high Sneaking is all you need. You could arguably drop a point from Sneaking and put it into Backstab if you want to use Sneaking to attack and not just in his case Sneak around.

One-Hand
- You do not need more than this. Highest possible damage. You could get Savage Strike by dropping a point somewhere but with a Shield it definitely is not needed.

Wow, that's a wicked character right there!

I hadn't seen this calculator before and gave it a try for my current character, who is lvl 22. It looks like at lvl. 45 I'm where I want to be: http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74743

Couldn't really find anything else worth getting. Maybe a bit more one-handed, but it's not really necessary for my playstyle. Good to know.

Yes, it is terrible.

• The left side of the block perk tree is what's useful for a tank, not the right side.
  
• You say "you don't need to block," I say up your difficulty. I need to block, or I die. Like I said, OP wants a tank.
  
• OP wants a Warrior Tank, not a rogue. Light Armor regen < Heavy Armor damage mitigation. With the Steed Stone (or related heavy armor perks) you'll never want for stamina.
  
• The top 3 tier'd perks of One Handed are the best, and you skipped them. Do you "NEED" them? No. Do you "NEED" any perks? No. Fail argument.
  
• You perked out Light Armor but went Heavy Armor for smithing-- is this for the better weapons?
  
• I agree that the alchemy/enchanting perks are the only ones you "NEED," however perking up all 3 crafting skills makes the game stupid easy.

-The left side of Blocking is not necessary. The single largest advantage to Blocking is Bashing. Offense is Defense in Skyrim.
-OP wants to play Sword and Board. The concept of a Tank in Skyrim just means you are slow to react and prefer mitigation over evasion. You don't need to block because your target(s) should be perma-staggered or dead before they can react. This is even with increased difficulty. You can side step or avoid most attacks with ease.
-The OP mentioned Sneak. This is the only reason I put Perks into Sneak. In order to Sneak effectively, these are the ones you need. Never want Stamina? Lol what? You want the Stamina for Bashing and Blocking. Mitigation in Skyrim is for slow people. You can just as easily hit the Armor cap with Light Armor and it is more offensively driven.
-I skipped the top 3 1H perks because it is all about damage. Like I said, you can drop the Sword crit for those if you prefer.
-Of course it is for the better weapons. The Light Armor branch of Smithing is stupid. You want Dragonscale and Daedric - that is it.
-Picking up those 3 crafting skills means you don't need to invest so heavily into Armor Perks and can reach a cap easier. It doesn't matter what build you have, these 3 skills should be in them unless you want to gimp yourself.

• You can still shield bash while going up the left side of the tree-- the damage mitigation side-- the tanking side.
  
• If you keep an opponent staggered for an entire fight you need to up the difficulty.
  
• When I said "you'll never want for stamina" I meant "you won't need to worry about stamina when you have the Steed Stone," it's a saying.
  
• "Mitigation in Skyrim is for slow people,"... or people who don't play on Adept?
  
• Not maxing out all three crafting skills by 50 isn't gimping yourself, it's keeping the gameplay balanced.

You do realize that it does not matter what game difficulty you have it on the AI is exactly the same right? If you are getting hit on any difficulty regularly, that is a problem. I can keep anything locked down just fine. My build is for maximum efficiency. The 3 crafting skills are the most efficient skills you can take and Perk.

When they're taking half the damage you won't ever have enough to stamina to stun-lock them with shield bashes. AI is irrelevant in this scenario. If you're stun locking enemies with a shield, you need to up the difficulty. Crafting skills aren't efficient, they're brutally overpowered when you take all three. This is a matter of preference, I will admit, and I will agree to the crafting perks you did select if one were to take all three.

Here's my take:

I agree on planning on level 50.
http://skyrimcalculator.com/#74947

• Archery - Took damage perks and Power Shot for stagger effect
  
• Heavy Armor - Only really need 1 perk in Juggernaut, go Well Fitted next for 45% total early on, then grab Tower of Strength, and then go for Conditioning
  
• Block - Took Quick Reflexes, is a must have imo, then went left side of the tree. Elemental Protection and Block Runner allow you to reach your targets quickly and effectively so you can lay the hurt on them without taking much damage on the way. The right side is horrible imo for a shield user. 2h get more damage out of power bash AND power bash uses a bunch of stamina AND has a horrible wind up animation to it. In other words, it's slow and doesn't do a lot of damage. Disarming bash works in like 1 of 5 hits, enemies will be dead by then. Deflect arrows is currently bugged and gives full block reduction (85%), it doesn't hurt but turns you into a beast at 30 block.
  
• One Handed - Damage perks, stamina reduction, charge to move around the field and close gaps, and Savage Strike, because it's just that awesome. Crit is worthless, so is bleeding and bone breaker. Former two have horrible damage and few enemies have armor and those that do barely have any (less then 150)
  
• Smithing - Daedric is better than Dragon Bone
  
• Sneak - Silent Running will make you completely silent in heavy armor, may have to use bow sneak attacks until you are 100% muffled, or make invisiblity potions. Shadow Warrior is nice with high damage reduction because you can take hits while you keep going in and of stealth to trigger sneak crit on an enemy.
  
• Alchemy - Use enchanting to fortify it and save perks
  
• Restoration - Why use potions when you can just heal? Save potions for an emergency.

On topic

I would take, Power Shot, Quick Shot, Shield Charge, and Backstab. The archery perks are nice, fire faster with a chance to stagger. Shield Charge is amazing, when enemies charge you after firing arrows at them...you charge them! and knock them over. Backstab to give your sneak attacks more oomph. Oh yeah for the fifth I would take Reflect Blows.

That does not make sense. I Stun Lock everything on Master just as easy as Adept. I never run out of Stamina ever. I rarely bump Health since it is extremely rare I ever get touched.

A little while longer actually.

I never thought this would escalate into such a popular thread, thank you for the replies guys, i've read each and every one, i shan't be replying to them all, but the alternate builds have tempted me, and i've decided to go with something along the lines of Ronin0nis, after seeing his reasoning for trimming out certain perks, i see now the mistakes i made.

Also thanks for helping me keep my goal short, i can see that over-shotting my plans to level 77 could've caused a few problems.

BTW: I know I mentioned a potential Alteration build alternate... and it's still somewhat viable.... but you should be aware of it's limitations and the innate (hidden) bonuses from wearing actual armor.

I'm going back to mage armor on my main (who I made a spellsword. Destro, 1hand, resto, enchant & alteration. I also grabbed 4 perks in Light armor... I was indecisive) but it is unquestionably inferior in every way.

refer to this thread here:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1340801-is-mage-armor-working-correctly/

Here's the short of it:
EbonyFlesh with 3/3 mage armor caps out at 36% damage reduction
Light (or heavy ofc) can easily reach 80% (max) damage reduction
There IS DragonHide spell, which is the alteration 80% DR spell, BUT it has a high cost and only 30 second duration, so only good when you REALLY need the max DR

Additionally... every piece of armor you wear has a HIDDEN 25 pts of armor added to your armor for calculating damage reduction. if you wear all cloth (to get mage armor bonus) then you do not get this hidden bonus.

In short... 3/3 mage armor is actually equivalent to 200 armor.... (since full armor would have 100 bonus hidden armor rating) instead of 300.

IMO this could be easily fixed by making each rank of mage armor worth +1x (so +1x, +2x, +3x instead of +1x, +1.5x, +2x) but alas... that is not the case right now.

PC gamers can of course get mods to help out... but console gamers like me are left waiting on (more than likely non-existent) balance fixes