It's safe to say I hugely underestmated the marked for death : V

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:16 am

Any enemy that has 0 or next to no armor rating, marked for death gives them negative armor rating. So hit a dragon with 3 or 4 marked for deaths and you will hit for at least 3-4x as much damage.

It's crazy how strong it is, continual hits stack with each other reducing the armor rating further into the negatives, combined with the short cool down its brilliant against durable enemies with lots of health but not much armor rating (basically every enemy in skyrim, the most armor rating you will find is 100).

It seems it's better to continually use the first level of the shout than the second or third, the extra cool down isn't worth the extra effect.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:46 am

I didn't know they stacked. Still, not sure using the level 1 shout is a good idea.

l1 (3 sustainable stacks): 75 ap = 4500 ap / m
l2 (2 sustainable stacks): 100 ap = 6000 ap / m
l3 (2 sustainable stacks for 20 seconds / minute): 75 ap * 40 s + 150 * 20 s = 6000 ap / m

So, level 3 shout wins if you consider the extra damage over time effect and the fact that you don't have to shout as often, meaning you can output more damage with your primary weapon.

I'm not even considering the time it takes for each level to reach its max stack, which makes the lower level shouts even worse.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:24 pm

There's so many shouts I don't bother with, or just forget about. I need to concentrate more on shouts, I'm missing out on too much.

Marked for Death sounds pretty awesome

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:06 pm

I didn't know they stacked. Still, not sure using the level 1 shout is a good idea.

l1 (3 sustainable stacks): 75 ap = 4500 ap / m
l2 (2 sustainable stacks): 100 ap = 6000 ap / m
l3 (2 sustainable stacks for 20 seconds / minute): 75 ap * 40 s + 150 * 20 s = 6000 ap / m

So, level 3 shout wins if you consider the extra damage over time effect and the fact that you don't have to shout as often, meaning you can output more damage with your primary weapon.

I think it's the way they stack that makes repeating using the level one shout repeatable preferable. When I first started stacking them against an elder dragon, I hit him with 5 level one marks, I then hit for at least 4x the damage when all its supposedly done is -125 armor rating.

I'll experiment a little more when I have the level 2 and 3 on my current character.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:55 am

It's a little dangerous to use around followers as it permanently reduces their armor rating, you have to wabbajack them to reset.

You may be right about level 2 and 3, I'm seeing some really strong results repeatable using level one though.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:30 am

I didn't know they stacked. Still, not sure using the level 1 shout is a good idea.

l1 (3 sustainable stacks): 75 ap = 4500 ap / m
l2 (2 sustainable stacks): 100 ap = 6000 ap / m
l3 (2 sustainable stacks for 20 seconds / minute): 75 ap * 40 s + 150 * 20 s = 6000 ap / m

So, level 3 shout wins if you consider the extra damage over time effect and the fact that you don't have to shout as often, meaning you can output more damage with your primary weapon.

I'm not even considering the time it takes for each level to reach its max stack, which makes the lower level shouts even worse.

How did you calculate that? And what is the "ap"?

If you use the Shout on an enemy, the armor reduction is counted when you Shout 'em again the second time, and so on. This means successive use of first level is better than one use of 3rd level.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:40 pm

How did you calculate that? And what is the "ap"?

If you use the Shout on an enemy, the armor reduction is counted when you Shout 'em again the second time, and so on. This means successive use of first level is better than one use of 3rd level.

ap is armor penetration. With the level 1 shout, you can have 25 ap for 20 seconds, then 50 ap for another 20 seconds, and finally 75 ap for the final 20 seconds. At one minute the first one will fall off, but the cooldown will be up so you can keep the 3 stacks going indefinitely (75 ap).

Level 3 shout starts out at 75 ap for 40 seconds, then 150 ap for 20 seconds. Then the first one will expire, so the cycle repeats.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:02 pm

ap is armor penetration. With the level 1 shout, you can have 25 ap for 20 seconds, then 50 ap for another 20 seconds, and finally 75 ap for the final 20 seconds. At one minute the first one will fall off, but the cooldown will be up so you can keep the 3 stacks going indefinitely (75 ap).

Level 3 shout starts out at 75 ap for 40 seconds, then 150 ap for 20 seconds. Then the first one will expire, so the cycle repeats.

The first time you shout (level 1) the effect is barely noticeable, as soon as you hit the second you start dealing x2 damage, think your wrong, it's the way they stack.

The armor penetration never wears off, it's only the damage effect that wears off.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:20 am

Marked for Death is my favorite shout, but as noted above, try not to hit your followers with it! :confused:

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Is it safe to say that PERMANENT armor penetration is ... probably not as intended? I wonder why it never got fixed...

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:25 am

The first time you shout (level 1) the effect is barely noticeable, as soon as you hit the second you start dealing x2 damage, think your wrong, it's the way they stack.

The armor penetration never wears off, it's only the damage effect that wears off.

Well then that is exploiting a bug. The game is easy enough without having to exploit

.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:49 am

Just did some testing, and the negative armor value increases over time.

A mudcrab had -864 armor value just before it died from the rank 1 shout.
Another had -1328 with a rank 3 shout, just before death.

e: The armor value stays negative, even after the effect wears off (hence why it screws with followers). Currently dodging a Cavebear with -7500 armor value that I gave a few rank 1 shouts.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:21 am

It's the only shout I used (occasionally), and it is extremely powerful indeed, and I didn't even have it fully unlocked.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:15 am

You can completely break this skill as well with talos buffs and illusion's calming spells. You can make a boss killable in a single hit eventually by stacking this.

The problem is that it permanently affects thralls and companions if they're caught in the blast...gotta be careful.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 am

Just did some testing, and the negative armor value increases over time.

A mudcrab had -864 armor value just before it died from the rank 1 shout.
Another had -1328 with a rank 3 shout, just before death.

e: The armor value stays negative, even after the effect wears off (hence why it screws with followers). Currently dodging a Cavebear with -7500 armor value that I gave a few rank 1 shouts.

I think my eyes just deceived me. Just how much is the armor reduction value of each shout?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:45 am

I think my eyes just deceived me. Just how much is the armor reduction value of each shout?

A rank 1 shout brought a troll to -1500 over a minute.
A rank 3 shout brought another troll to -4500 over a minute.

To get the actual damage increase in percent, multiply the value by 0,12

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:19 am

i noticed that using lvl 1 Fire breath is much more efficient than lvl 2 or 3, lvl 1 does 50 damage for 30 sec recharge., level 2 does 70 fire damage for a 50 second recharge, and level 3 does 90 damage, but takes 100 seconds to recharge. so, it's better to repeatably use level one.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:17 am

A rank 1 shout brought a troll to -1500 over a minute.
A rank 3 shout brought another troll to -4500 over a minute.

To get the actual damage increase in percent, multiply the value by 0,12

Are you sure it's that high? It seems it's only after the second repeated level one shout I'm doing insane damage?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:49 am

That's what the console commands told me.

Note that those values are after a full minute, so it'll take some time before your damage reaches silly levels.
A rank 1 shout will reduce armor by 25 pts/second, while the rank 3 will reduce it by 75/sec.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:19 am

That's what the console commands told me.

Note that those values are after a full minute, so it'll take some time before your damage reaches silly levels.
A rank 1 shout will reduce armor by 25 pts/second, while the rank 3 will reduce it by 75/sec.

Oh, I thought only the damage was over a minute. I didn't realise it kept removing armor rating every second, that's stupidly overpowered.

So it's best to use the level 3 shout?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:46 am

Oh, I thought only the damage was over a minute. I didn't realise it kept removing armor rating every second, that's stupidly overpowered.

So it's best to use the level 3 shout?

I can't see any reason not to, unless you want to use another shout soon after.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:46 am

I just got this Shout last night, I am going to have to try it.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:56 am

I role play the shout and use it with my assassin only.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:37 pm

Successive hits with the shout appear to multiply their effect, not sum.

If you look at the UESP entry, it says that the Marked for Death shout actually increases vulnerability to shouts, as well. Which means it multiplies its own effectiveness every time it hits.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:58 am

Is it safe to say that PERMANENT armor penetration is ... probably not as intended? I wonder why it never got fixed...

I wonder that about all of the 5,739 bugs still left in the game, most of them just as obvious as that one.