How about modding this in:

- Overcharge ammo: -5 DT on top of everything else?
- Max Charge ammo: -10 DT on top of everything else?

What do you mean by "ball ammo"? The hollow points are naturally going to do very little damage because you're giving them a DT of 30.

Ball. FMJ. "Standard ammo". The 9mm ammo which isn't hollow pointed or +P.

I think you missed the interesting part. The ball ammo did 36 damage, which is 3 times the weapon's rated damage for this character. In other words it did normal damage plus critical damage times 2 (12+12*2 = 36) which is normal for a sneak attack, but then none of it was subtracted by DT at all. Whereas for the hollow point ammo, I can't even figure out how it derived 12 but obviously armor was very much subtracting from this hit. The point was that standard ammo blasted through their armor without being affected at all, but the hollow point ammo did about what you'd expect.

At least that what seems to be happening. Should probably test this more.

Sneak criticals do double whatever the normal base + critical hit is. If the base and the critical are the same (which they are for the 9mm), it will essentially do quad damage.

The readout isn't bugged, the display simply can't account for every possible DT. Its perfectly correct on unarmored targets. DT is supposed to be applied before damage multipliers.

Zug? So it's (damage+critical)*2 not damage+(critical*2). Geez, sneak attacks are even more insane than I had previously misunderstood.

Then add in headshots on top of that.[I believe its an extra 50% in most cases]

Most video games don't really reward stealth and careful aiming for the head that much, its usually pointless unless its a forced requirement for the mission. But fallout greatly rewards being a stealthy, accurate killer.

How fun is being the stealth assassin when any foe takes at least two shots and there is no way to say hidden after the first shot? its not fun at all. On the other hand how fun is it when you constantly have to be stealthy and aren't allowed to make a stand up fight. Fallout gives us the choice of how we slaughter our enemies a knock-down brawl is probably faster but more hazardous.
While the stealthy route is slower but safer.

But really the damage multipliers in Fallout 3&Vegas are nothing compared to the insane things you could do in Fallout 1&2.

I dunno about that. Fallout 2 had plenty of craziness (Bozar crits lololol), but Fallout 3 should be in the running for the ridiculous Terrible Shotgun sneak crits.

I try it on Marcus bump his DT to 65 and headshot him:
-Sneak
JSP did 528.03
Ball did 352.02
-Non Sneak
JSP did 264.01
Ball did 176.01
EDIT: the I realize that wasn't a crit shot so I do it again
23.31 for both rounds

So there you go, ammo multiplier is indeed after DT but before 20% leak....make sense with Hollow Points and AP rounds, but not with Energy weapon.

Another funny thing is Marcus instantly go Hostile when I use Ball, but with JSP he just ask WTH are you doin'.......

Yeah I really miss my 2000+ dmg sneak attacks with that weapon

As Lord Vukodlak suggested, it's difficult for the DAM readout to account for the interaction between DT and various ammo effects. We settled on the "order of operations" for ammo effects to ensure that hollow point rounds and armor piercing rounds behaved in a fashion that made sense. OC/MC ammunition doesn't use any DT bypass currently, so it winds up suffering from that order. I ruled out allowing for variable orders of operations because it would make testing/debugging (much) more of a pain.

For the upcoming patch, all energy weapon ammo types (including MF Breeder and including base types, but excluding Flamer Fuel) have built-in DT bypass. I have made other tweaks to individual Energy Weapons across the spectrum, but the modification to ammo effects is probably the most noticeable and significant.

Awesome Sounds like a decent fix.

That sounds fantastic. I can't wait to start a new energy weapon character post-patch!

Thanks Swayer, hope you guys can fix up the reloading bug as well :tops:

Could you offer some quick breakdown of those so we can mod and use it pre-patch? How much DT bypass for normal, OC and MC ammo? How much a boost for basic energy guns, 10, 20, 30%?

That's nice to hear. Looks like you're going with the http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35240 I had concerning the EW DT problem.

By the way, when is the next patch coming? (360)

Crap now I have to wait for the modifications! Ah well may well slightly up the dmg on the energy weapons in the GECK and then add the DT mod posted above, hopefully I'm close to what the patch will have.

Very nice, looking forward to the patch!

Cheers!

somethings definitely screwy with the DAM/DPS readout. i compared two guns, the "This Machine" or w/e, basically the M1 Garand, and the standard sniper rifle. the readout said that the DAM of the M1 was higher, but its DPS was considerably lower - even though when firing the weapons the M1 was clearly faster at firing by some margin. and yes i used the same ammo with each gun!

You...I hereby dedicate my next playthrough of FO2 to you, while I twitchily wait for this patch! My lasers will come home at last!

Nice! I take back all those bad things I said about you.. sept the hair... I still dont like your hair;/ Makes me feel old for some reason... mumble.

On laser weapons my main problems were...

The pistol is not realy any faster then all the gun pistols and without iron sights and a scope its not accurate either and while its supposed to do a solid dps realy alot of tier 1 guns beat it by a mile.

The laser rifle... for something that much bigger then the laser pistol its far too much like one. and again its not all that fast either.

the ae 14 whatever.. I never even bothered to get it.

The gatling laser...I realy wouldnt mind what it does if it were flinging out 2 or 3 shots per ecp and were firing faster but as it is its just too low damage. Yes ity should eat money like a room full of ex wives but it should fill the air with blazing flashy death.


On plasma weapons.. if anything I think they should be a bit slower specialy in rt but a heck of alot more oomphy.. having even a plasma pistol fired at you should be upsetting. And the sound effect.. realy needs more oomph to it.. sounds like a cat backfiring.

The DT piercing for all Energy Weapon ammo is great news, but I don't quite understand why Flamer Fuel is not receiving a similar buff. The Flamer is nigh unto useless against Super Mutant Masters and Deathclaws.

Doesn't flamer and incendiator ignore armour altogether?

Nope, nothing screwy going on. This Machine has a 1x crit modifier, sniper rifle has a 5x modifier.