Am I the only one here who thought this was the most interesting quest in the entire game? At least, the actual negotiation was interesting. There was no combat involved, and barely any movement at all, but I thought the quest was the most interesting one.

It kind of changed my whole outlook of the game's premise. At first, when I 'met' Ralof in the wagon at the beginning of the game, I let HIM speak for the Stormcloaks. I liked Ralof, and his purpose for fighting the civil war seemed like a good purpose and I respected him as a character, and resented General Tullius for executing Ralof.

But after I played through the Season Unending Quest, I realized how much of an [censored] Jarl Ulfric was, and then realized he was simply pushing the Nordic people into a blind war with the purpose to simply take the throne for himself.

I also realized how much of a good person Tullius was. If Ralof had instead been leading the Stormcloaks, I may have a different outlook than I do now... but Ralof does not speak for Ulfric, who I assumed was similar to Ralof.

This should really be in the 'spoilers' area.

Damn, forgot. Thought I was there, but I guess not.

Ulfric truly is an ass, and a few of the Jarls who support him even think so. It's a mutually beneficial deal with a Stormcloak victory:They can have what they want such as worship Talos, but Ulfric becomes High King. That's what it is ALL about. I did this quest and I have to say, it was quite awesome. It showed that as the Dragonborn, you truly are *important* and you DO have a say in things. Sadly, this is probably THE only quest where dialogue is sharper than a legendary daedric sword.

Tullius brought the Thalmor who tortured Ulfric to the negotiation and insists that she stay there. If you order Elenwen to leave, Tullius says you're helping the Stormcloaks, even if he gets everything else he wants.

So explain to me how Tullius is a "good person."

And I thought the quest was interesting, but it's basically all a farce and both Tullius and Ulfric know it. They're just humoring you.

I tried to be fair and impartial, but after Ulfric's temper tantrums I decided I'd give the Empire just a little edge over the Stormcloaks:

Stormcloaks gain Markarth: Giving them control of the valuable silver mines.

In exchange, the Empire got Winterhold and Dawnstar: giving them complete control over the northern waters of Skyrim allowing them to put a blockade around Windhelm. It also gives them a direct route from Solitude to Windhelm.

Once Whiterun joins the Empire, Markarth's silver flow is cut off from the rest of the Stormcloak territory, meaning the gains Ulfric received are marginal at best. Meanwhile, the only other Hold he can go to for help is the Rift, which quickly falls when the Legion, myself, and Odaviing attack. Eastmarch is a simple conquest after that.

And all of this because Ulfric couldn't act like an advlt.

VERY well played.... I don't now remember what I did the only time I played through that.... but I doubt it was that elegant.

Thanks. I'm a big fan of the Total War series, and I always liked to think of the best way to cut off resources and isolate your opponents. I wish control over the Holds had more to them than just "Capture this one place and you're the winner."

Well, as I said, Tullius is the real [censored] in this scenario by bringing Elenwen and insisting she remain. He can be coolheaded about it all because he has no personal stake in the outcome. He's just a hireling. A fairer comparison, I think, is Elisif. She, too, is emotional during the discussion. But of course she also has no backbone and gives in when Tullius pats her on the head and tells her to shut up.

Ulfric is passionate, that's part of his character, you can choose to see it negatively if you like of course.

BTW the strategic advantages are meaningless since they have no bearing on the outcome of the war. Like I said above- it's a waste of everyone's time. It's just what you have to do to placate Balgruuf.

I agree bringing the Thalmor is a bad move, but Ulfric's whole attitude that we should all be grateful he'd even make time in his schedule to talk to us is what made me angry. Part of me doesn't even think Elisif should be there either, considering it's a war between the Imperial Legion and Stormcloak Rebels. I'm always happy to see the lovely lady, but it wasn't really something she had much involvement in herself. Still, it's good practice for her to actually start learning how to lead, even if she's still just observing at this point.

Celan, perhaps you didn't notice that there are two versions of the conference -- one for Imperials or the unaffiliated and one for Stormcloaks. In the Stormcloak version, Tullius will begin to yell at Elenwen shortly after Esbern's outburst -- hardly a "hireling."

He's right- it's all a farce. And the fact that you don't think Elisif should even be there says a lot. Like, everything Ulfric's been saying all along.

What do you mean by the Stormcloak version? I didn't think you got this quest at all if you pursued the civil war quest line.

By hireling I mean he's been sent by the empire to do a job, and has no personal stake in Skyrim's fate except for maybe a career path. Indicated by the fact he asks Ulfric for surrender at the Battle of Solitude whereas Rikke won't.

This quest is actually a terrible thing to use to indict either side. There are two versions of the conference, as I said, that depend on which civil war faction the player joins. Both portray the opposing general (or Ulfric, if you haven't sided with anyone) in a negative light, both generals reward you for being partisan, and at one point, if you weren't, they would throw you out and the other general would try to catch you on the rebound.

You receive the quest if you aren't yet ready to siege the enemy side's capital, and the Jarl who opposes trapping a dragon due to threat from enemy violence can be Balgruuf, Hrongar*, or Vignar Gray-Mane.

*As "The Whispering Door" at one point required Balgruuf's murder, Hrongar would take his place in any other quests -- including sieging Whiterun -- that needed Balgruuf.

It's not her fight. She's not leading a rebellion, and Ulfric's not even really at war with her. Killing Torygg was his declaration of war against the Empire, not Solitude.

Besides, it's only a farce because there's not a way to permanently end the Civil War right then and there.

What do you mean by the Stormcloak version? I didn't think you got this quest at all if you pursued the civil war quest line.

You can, up to a point.
-With the Empire, you can still get Season unless you've conquered the Pale.
-With the Stormcloaks, you can still get Season unless you've conquered Hjaalmarch.

The difference between the imperial/neutral and the Stormcloaks is this:
In the I/N version, after you decide on Elenwen, Ulfric automatically claims the Reach, and you have to negotiate from there.
In the SC version, after you decide, Tullius automatically claims the Rift. Continue from there.

Edit to add: ...I just realised this, but the jarl changes from both Ulfric forcing the Reach, and Tullius forcing the Rift, will install a mafia boss as the new jarl. This is kinda lame...

Huh. I didn't know there were two different versions of the scene. Will have to try it on a Stormcloak character.


Technically you're right. She's not high queen yet, but is in line to be. It's the lack of Nord leadership over Skyrim's destiny that's one of Ulfric's bugs. And yeah, that's why it's a farce. Neither Tullius or Ulfric are going to come to the table to negotiate, they both know it's going to be settled on the battlefield, so there's not a lot of point to what goes on.