Should Bethesda Game Studios use Id Tech 5? : Othor Games

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:25 am

I dug up and watched this interview of Todd Howard at quake con after id merged into Bethesda Softworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpagR4vo1AU

I think id Tech 5 is phenomenal technology. Obviously, you know, John Carmack. It doesn't get any better than that. How well, either that whole technology or parts of it, suit what we're doing at Bethesda, it's to be seen. There isn't any mandate that we have to switch or they have to switch. You know, I sort of view it right now like we're at a big buffet and someone just rolled in another table of food. We're sharing stuff right now, and they can look at our stuff, and we can look at their stuff. We're very friendly and we talk. It might be that we implement an idea that they have for doing something, or we actually use code, or vice versa.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/11/new-bethesda-game-to-use-id-tech-5/

Bethesda has already acquired a new game developer, MachineGames, that will use id Tech 5 in an upcoming title. MachineGames was created by founding members of Starbreeze studios, best known for The Chronicles of Riddike: Escape from Butcher Bay.

My question is, would BGS be selling out if they converted to id's engine? It's no secret that the Gamebryo (Creation) engine has not aged well, and the opportunity to switch is better than ever.

Before you answer this question, You should know a couple of things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U-i4gXkLM

The second skill at the end of this course is the ability to use the vocabulary of computational tools in order to be able to understand programs written by others. So you're going to be able to write, you're going to be able to read. This latter skill, by the way, is incredibly valuable, because you don't want to do everything by scratch yourself. You want to be able to look at what is being created by somebody else and understand what is inside of there, whether it works correctly and how you can build on it. This is one of the few places where plagiarism is an ok thing. It's not bad to learn from the skills of others in order to create something that you want to write. Although, we'll come back to plagiarism as a bad thing later on.

From MIT's Introduction to Computer Science and Programming, 2008, Eric Grimson. Quote begins at 5:04.

Creativity isn't something that can be measured. Two games can use the same engine and be completely different. However, this shouldn't come as a shock to most of you.

Half-life, Valve's flagship IP and one of the most influential games of all time, used a heavily modified version of the Quake engine developed by id.

The end result? Radically different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et3UByMSmg4 (Quake)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YovVzXyRXBY (Half-Life)

Furthermore, The Witcher used a modified version of the aurora engine, developed by Bioware, most notably used in neverwinter nights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TSz2_UDxU (Neverwinter Nights 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fL77c6nTc4 (The Witcher)

However, to have some of Bethesda's largest assets taking code from id, it sounds like mainstreaming, so take it as you will. What would you guys like to see Bethesda do in their next title?

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:44 am

Todd Howard is by far the coolest game developer on Earth.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:10 am

Yes. I loved Rage. I loved how the textures were not repeated textures, the A.I. I don't know a whole lot about what else the engine comes with..I just know I loved Rage despite the problems it had on release or still might have with some now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_5

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:08 am

id Tech 5 isn't suited for open world gaems because it makes use of a Megatexture, which is one singular texture for the entirety of the terrain. It does look pretty, but it isn't exactly meant for this type of engine unfortunately. I also remember John Carmack saying it wasn't suited for open ended games either.

http://gamrzz.com/news/carmack-id-tech-5-rages-engine-does-not-work-with-open-world-games/

“The megatexture direction [in id Tech 5] has some big wins, but it’s also fairly restrictive on certain types of games,” he said. “It would be a completely unacceptable engine to do [Bethesda's Elder Scrolls V:] Skyrim in, where you’ve got the whole world, walking across these huge areas."

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:56 am

With id under the Zenimax roof now, I'd like to see Bethesda create their own engine while consulting and asking for id's help. That, to me, would be the best idea.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:22 pm

ID's engine is not suited for Bethesda's open world games. Not to mention it has serious issues all on it's own.

OpenGL is dead, Carmack still living in the 90's.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:51 am

I'd rather leave decisions like this to people who actually know what they're doing
looking up tech details on engines is one thing
actually making a game with it is something else entirely

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:41 am

It's perfect if you want Skyrim to be 100 gigabytes big.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:11 am

If I am correct and ID 5 uses python (basically a scripted language, also called interpreted language,) It would make modding a lot easier in many respects. I remember VTMB being not so easy to mo, because they hard coded so many things, but certain aspects were python based and could be easily changed or added to. Specifiaclly: You couldn't add new areas, as the locations and storyline were locked in. However, you could add new clans, change the dialogues to be appropriate, and (to a limited degree) change the way powers behaved.

Yes, I modded VTMB and in 2 instances, those mods opened doors for other modders with more ambition, to build upon. When VTMB changed the forum hosting, my original works disappeared, but when I look at some of the most recent mods, I can still see my influence in them.

I'm all for it. I am a modder and I also like to look at the mods of others. I like it when people can constructively build upon my work and I can do the same with the work of others.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:20 am

They should just license a proven game engine for their TES... either Unreal Engine or CryENGINE (whatever versions those may be when the time comes)...

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:48 am

If Bethesda wants to create an all time best game. They need to hire some guys from ID and create there own Engine with help.

I think it would be great. I'm not sure how they would make it work for Beths games.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:47 pm

If I am correct and ID 5 uses python (basically a scripted language, also called interpreted language,)

id Tech 5 doesn't use Python, it uses its own scripting language like every other id Tech engine.

Also, Python is a programming language and not a scripting language, but it's often used as a scripting language so I understand your confusion.

OpenGL is dead, Carmack still living in the 90's.

:lol:

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:10 pm

Id5 has serious issues with Rage, though they should be worked out by now, don't know, didn't get the game as it isn't my style. Anyway, one game that uses an engine not used at all by Beth is the one used in Just Cause 2. The game is totally open world (I'd say it is larger than Oblivion in scale), most everything is destructible and the graphics on PC are top notch and the physics are sweet. I mean, draw distance, weather and water effects, textures, even up close are all very nice and the game runs sweet on my rig. It just shows that an open world game can be great looking and work well. The game story, voice acting and plot is terrible, but the gameplay is some of the best I have ever had for an action shooter type game.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:37 am

I woulda thought it makes the most sense for them to continue using the engine they built in house to fit their needs.

Spoiler

P.S. Creation Engine is not Gamebyro

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:46 am

I woulda thought it makes the most sense for them to continue using the engine they built in house to fit their needs.

Spoiler

P.S. Creation Engine is not Gamebyro

But they did, it is obvious in Skyrim that they just used an updated version of the Gamebryo engine and renamed it. Still has pretty much the same effects, near exact same console command set with all of the syntax carried over. People are already figuring out how to use the Fallout Construction kit to make mods (you can open up the data file with that toolset and extract files). It takes years to build a completely different engine, that's the hardest part of game design. I doubt they did something totally different in the three years since Fallout 3's release. They just updated it. Bioware did the same thing with the engine that did Dragon Age: Origins, to updating it to what is Dragon Age 2. The toolset for DA:O won't work with 2, but the editors all still use the same code and can be manipulated from there.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:11 am

ID tech 5 with megatextures in an open world game? You'd probably get even lower resolution textures...

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:08 am

No they need to make a brand new engine darn it.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:38 am

I wouldn't count on Idtech 5 but who knows for Idtech 6 or later

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:02 am

I think they should find a way to use the engine utilized for Just Cause 2. Now that was a nice open-world engine that functioned properly across all three major platforms. Bethesda's current engine is pretty poor as a multiplatform engine (PS3 here, here... my version of Skyrim stutters incessantly and is a technical piece of garbage that gets worse with increasing saved data file sizes).

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:11 am

I would love to see Bethesda convince Capcom to license out their MT Framework engine. That would be sweeter than pumpkin pie.