Becoming the new head of the faction as an outsider is silly. Resolve this by simply making the quest to be a friend of the guild while allowing for extra missions if the faction aligns with your character. I'm not a Mage so I would not run the full college quest line but I could easily be hired muscle. I could become a friend of the companions but not the leader.

It's ridiculous to be the leader and still have a quest log asking me to talk to the companion leader for a mission. Same with still having a tag to visit the college after I've already run several quests for them.

This would also make it a little more sensible to be a friend of the thrives and companions and wizards rather than the faction leader. If I'm the faction head, npc's should notice. Easier to explain being ignored if I'm just a friend.

Yeeeeah, I felt the same way about the DB questline. I find it odd that not only am I a DragonBorn, but also a person of importance in the DB somehow(without risk of spoiling). And then to end up the ultimate leader, makes no sense, I agree totally.

id just like to highlight this because it demonstrates how you are SUPPOSED to build a narrative in a game. build the story around the limits of what you can put in the game. if you cant feasibly have NPCs acknowledge you being the leader of a faction or make being a leader mean anything, than have the narrative NOT freaking make you the leader. we shouldnt have to explain this. if a certain idea doesnt translate well into the game, then it is not a good idea. george lucas is the kind of person who would let sh**ty implementation slide by just so his exact idea can be expressed, but most humans are above that sort of thing.

that said, it doesnt at all address the problem of the guilds being lackluster altogether. being made leader so fast is ridiculous, but the main problem is that the guilds are so short and badly structured as is. i dont think just being an associate would be all that satisfying considering the point of guilds is to be a part of them, but being leader is just as disconnected in a way. here is a crazy idea, how about... you dont end up the leader? how about you get a high ranking position and some respect in the end but someone else actually runs things? there is no good reason to be the leader outside of occasionally being recognized as the leader, and staying as a normal member doesnt shatter your suspension of disbelief in 30 different ways as you realize in just how many ways you leading this faction doesnt make any sense.

If this were a superhero game it would make sense for you hearing people talk about the exploits of captain hero and maybe mentioning the last adventure in the papers while making no mention of your race, gender, supergroup affiliation, etc. being treated like an anonymous every man is part of your secret identity.

The thing that strikes me is that the skyrim game itself seems like a large template. Dlc could add large swaths of new story, hours of content, feel like a new game and extend the life.

Conventional rpg publishers had expansion modules but it was always subjective as to which ones were values and which ones were cheap ripoffs.

If you're going to be leader, then make the quest lines longer. I feel as if you don't really earn it at all. You just stumble in when all hell breaks loose and they're like... "Hey, why the hell not!"

You do realize that the companions have more of a council of leaders than a specific leader, right? I mean, you totally end up as the head honcho, but there are still other "leaders."

It's even stupider to become leader after 6 quests.

The mages college is the worst questline I have ever seen in a TES game. You go from outsider to archmage in a week, and the questline is such a cliche. From the moment you see the different NPC (especially Ancano) you know almost exactly how it's going to turn out. I mean Tolfdir, for example, has been at the college for god knows how many years, and he's a master wizard to boot. It would be only natural that he was given the role of archmage, not some outsider doing a couple of chores for the guild.

I dislike the fact that I

The college quests were extremely disappointing, which is exacerbated by the fact that it has such an interesting start. I was finally treated like a student of magic - attending lessons and taking field trips to archaeological sites. I could barely contain my nerd passions, which were inevitably crushed by how quickly the role of Archmage was thrown on you. Indeed, I feel like the Ancarno villain wasn't properly fleshed out or explored in any depth. Which can mostly be attributed to, once again, how quickly the overall story abruptly ends.

If you think about it, each quest line is basically a miniature version of a larger fantasy game. The sneak thief stuff is like Thief, melee combat like Ultima Underworld, and they're trying to let you play the whole game as different character classes.

The only way around this would be to be more like the current shooters where you change character every few missions.

Rather than being only one character, each quest line would be a separate character. The story would now feel like high fantasy stories with several point of view characters seeing the story.

That's one solution but it would feel a lot different from Elder Scrolls. Might feel more natural in a conventional rpg where you have an isometric view of the whole party and aren't living in the skin of said character.

The biggest advantage I can think of with having multiple characters in stages is that you get to see all the different play styles. Right now I'm an archer two-Hand nord in heavy armor. If I want to play an even ranger or Breton Mage that's a new character and 30 hours of leveling. Hell, just becoming a one-hand and shield warrior is essentially a new build.

It's a matter of opinion as to whether you would call that more quality gameplay and longevity or just padding.

Awaiting the storm

The fact that the game doesn't really highlight your progression doesn't help either.

College-wise, Savos does say "You're more than an apprentice" and gives you a Mages Circlet, presumably promoting you, but its easy to miss.

The Companions is a bit more visible, with the Trial to become a full Companion defined, and then your obvious transition into the Circle (though they don't ever mention you being part of it, Farkas mentions earlier that all the special people are in the Circle). You do flip around to Harbinger pretty fast though, and theres no difference in the Radiant Quests at all to cover it.

Comparitively, the Stormcloaks acknowledge every step, and your rise makes some sense since they're a bunch of ragtag rebels.

I'm torn as to which side of the civil war to take. Stormcloak sound like bigger jerks but are the more interesting quest?

Yeah, had the same problem. I went with the imperials in the end though.
I wish there was an option to be neutral and still advance the civil war quest, that way you could just wipe out both.

I picked nord because I come from the land of the ice and snow with the midnight sun where the hot springs flow. Figured the race would fit the theme. I wonder how out of place it would feel to be a Dragonborn furry siding with the storm cloaks?

Interesting topic. I think that similar discussions are taking place at Bethesda (and other companies) while they're building their games.

In the end, they have to walk a fine line between those of us who would like some recognition added to the game, and also prefer much longer quest lines, and those who are doing what most of us are doing - having many quests on the log, and trying to work through them one at the time, or doing a little on a few of them and advancing slowly.

If you could just have one quest on your quest log and follow that to conclusion, I think quests could/would be a little longer. But given that you walk around with anywhere 6-8 (or more) quests open (above the miscellaneous quest list), plus another 10-15 (or more) on the miscellaneous quest log - they're going to try to keep them shorter so that players don't lose their focus, and quit because it never seems to end.

The simplest solution would make the side quests required before moving on.

I generally kept quite a few side missions going between each step of the Thieves guild.
So I finsihed say the ring frame job... then do a few side jobs, plus my own extra curricular petty crimes on the side (ka-ching), then maybe a few "help the people of the city", then the next guild quest.

It made the whole process seem much longer and more involved.
But thinking back now, if you were to do all the quests in the line one after the other, yeah it's short.

Pacin is difficult in a nonlinear game. Storytelling becomes difficult. How good would your favorite movie be if all the scenes were shown out of order? Nonlinear storytelling only works for a very few stories.

Actually, one of the biggest problems in books and shows/movies is pacing. Don't move too quickly but don't pad the story. Make every scene count, keep up the tension.

But contrast that with an open world where you can do what you want in any order. You don't want to put a realistic time limit on the quest where a player can perma-fail a quest without realizing it. But the same freedom that allows me to ignore a main quest for 20 hours means that it also feels inconsequential.

I think the only answer is that if it's an open world game, you the player may take part in the consequential but are personally inconsequential. Only way to keep plausibility and immersion going. If you have a gangland Chicago game, you start as a mook and maybe rise to hatchet man but are never Capone. You remain behind the scenes. It remains plausible that most people don't know you and those that do are by definition few. You thus only need to script a few characters recognizing your progression.

As it stands, in skyrim I am the hero of the age and can also be a recognized leader of how many significant factions, known across the land? Impossible to script realistically, would require so much conditional dialog.

I just want the option to say no to being the leader but a few perks like telling others what to do (dark brother hood, theives, and compainions) or building and teaching my skills for my students(mages).

Like I said, friend of faction, not leader.