Size of "Cities"

Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:59 am

If you have terrible speed or acrobatics scores, you may end up taking a little longer. Given how the skill system works in Morrowind, and players' propensity to jump everywhere, it pretty common to have decent levels in both. If you have even a moderately competent acrobatics score, you can just start leaping off the tops of cantons. Almsivi Intervention will blast you straight to the other side in a second. Obviously, entering the cantons will take longer if only due to the load times involved. Actually moving around Vivec is pretty quick. I mean, it's a big city, but it's very dense. Unless you don't know where you're going, it won't take very long.

In any case, what you really seem to be complaining about is movement speed. This is a wholly separate issue from city size/design. It's weird to say you wouldn't like a city the size of Vivec in Skyrim because the movement speed in Morrowind wasn't fast enough.
I think we're all talking about not using magical tricks and crazy acrobatic stunts and going around the city like a regular person, in which case Vivec takes AGES to traverse. It might be dense inside the cantons but to get out of the cantons you have to go out and around and down the stairs, which might not be in the same direction to the one bridge you need to get to the right canton, and they're pretty damn big cantons. Then in the next one you have to try and find the right way into the canton and go up all the stairs to get to that. It would still be annoying in Skyrim. The reason the city is so big is because it's spread out. Everything's in the cantons so you have loads of walkway with nothing in it that you have to traverse. In any other city in the series you have buildings everywhere.
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TRIsha FEnnesse
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:51 pm

The whole gameworld is far too small in my opinion, not just cities.

I don't expect a bustling metropolis with crowds of people everywhere. In fact, i'm fine with towns seeming rather empty. I just wish everything was larger and more spread out.
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BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:48 am

I think we're all talking about not using magical tricks and crazy acrobatic stunts and going around the city like a regular person, in which case Vivec takes AGES to traverse. It might be dense inside the cantons but to get out of the cantons you have to go out and around and down the stairs, which might not be in the same direction to the one bridge you need to get to the right canton, and they're pretty damn big cantons. Then in the next one you have to try and find the right way into the canton and go up all the stairs to get to that. It would still be annoying in Skyrim. The reason the city is so big is because it's spread out. Everything's in the cantons so you have loads of walkway with nothing in it that you have to traverse. In any other city in the series you have buildings everywhere.
The city isn't spread out. It's just big. Considering it's size, it's very dense (Compare to something like Sadrith Mora, for example). If you've spent any amount of time there (as you're apt to do in Morrowind), you should learn it's layout like the back of your hand.

I also don't see why you'd say, "Well sure, it doesn't take ages to walk through if you use all your abilities to your advantage." I mean, why would you intentionally stunt your speed? If your character is capable of leaping from high heights or levitating or using teleportation spells, why wouldn't they use those to quickly traverse the landscape? Artificially limiting the way you can move through the world isn't really an argument against large cities. If you have the tools to move quickly, but refuse to use them, it's on you. It's not a problem with city size.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:40 am

:huh: It takes like thirty seconds to cross from one end of Vivec to the other on foot. Less if you have a decent levitation spell.

takes 30 seconds to get half way across one of the ziggrauts
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bimsy
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:53 pm

I have little interest in DisneyTamriel. I want vast expanses, epic cities, deep forests. Sigh. After installing some realism mods, this becomes more apparent.
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Laura Cartwright
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:04 pm

takes 30 seconds to get half way across one of the ziggrauts
It doesn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhHEUZjtVpg#t=2m55s

It takes him just under a minute and thirty to get from the foreign quarter to the temple district. He is only jogging (no jumping or levitating) and takes the long way around one of the cantons. He's clearly less familiar with the area as he gets totally lost and runs around in circles earlier in the video. Considering how much faster one can move with levitation and by jumping, he could have easily halved the time it took by coupling either of those tactics with a route that's actually efficient.

Discounting the use of acrobatics and/or levitation and/or teleportation/gondola travel in Morrowind is like timing how long it takes to get somewhere in Skyrim while refusing to sprint. Of course it'll take longer if you refuse to use your abilities to their full advantage. I don't see why your choice to intentionally stunt your travel speed should mean other players ought to be given smaller cities.
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Ana Torrecilla Cabeza
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:52 pm

They were able to do the massive cities back in 1994 with Arena, and again in 96 with Daggerfall. There is a reason those with clue keep mentioning procedurals and instancing. You use the fact that habitations look alike for the bulk of the buildings; save the more personal work for specific things. Change the textures and normal maps and you have buildings that look alike, but subltly different. Alter the texture color towards the grayish end, and you have buildings of varying ages. Lay out your cell with mapped ground, and instance the building blocks; no building can appear -on- the cobbled road or the outlined pathways. That is a simple alpha map trick people use in Vue Infinite all the time. Add the code to tweak an instances location, and you can get results that look 'handmade', an can't be told from it.

Doing terrain and cityscapes this way would ease the polygon budget, allowing for more characters onscreen at the same time.
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Skrapp Stephens
 
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Post » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:39 pm

I don't feel like big cities would fit in Skyrim. Most of the Nords there have little interest in that sort of commercial wealth. From what I see of them they'd mostly prefer to farm or live in small villages. The cities that are there were mostly built for protection from various elements. They are big enough to fit the needs of these simple people.

However it does make one wonder how they would even think of challenging the Empire or anyone else for that matter. Their population is terribly small.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:34 am

Simple

Major Cities:
Markarth
Riften
Solitude
Windhelm
Whiterun

Minor Cities:
Dawnstar
Morthal
Falkreath
Winterhold

The Major cities have their own unique (and in my opinion awesome) look, while the Minor cities pretty much look the same. Sturdy log/wood houses with wood/straw roofs.
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luis ortiz
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:11 am

The Cloud District in Whiterun has a good size. I should know, I spend a lot of time there when I'm not managing Chillfurrow Farm. Do you guys get to the Cloud District very often? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.
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kitten maciver
 
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Post » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:31 am

Game limitations folks. This has been discussed to death.
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Abi Emily
 
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