Is anybody playing the beta with 3D Vision 2? I'm haven't started playing yet and am debating getting a 3D Vision 2 kit and monitor. I've read many extremely positive posts and reviews about running Skyrim with 3D Vision, but I'm wondering 2 things before I jump in and spend the cash:

- Do mods work with 3D Vision? My main interest is in texture replacers, shader mods, and Sky UI.

- Does the beta fix any of the 3D Vision issues in the game? Here's a bug list from another thread:

"Like most directx games it mostly works but there are a few very noticeable and annoying things that beth just failed to fix up. Quest pointers appearing at screen depth instead of at actor depth, the map is just unusable, water around the coast line is messed up, something to do with the refraction they employ and most unforgivable is the skybox is not at the correct depth making it appear WAY too close."

Thanks in advance for any feedback/guidance.

The Beta doesn't explicitly address 3D Vision problems, but the significant performance gains from the patch make the 3D Vision experience signficantly better on hardware capable of realizing the gains. The problems with 3D Vision dim in comparison to how glorious Skyrim looks in 3D (with mods), so that shouldn't be too much of a concern. The community has done a great job of fixing the game's most glaring issues in 3D and the remaining issues are not uncommon for many games that are still considered as "excellent" in 3D. I'll answer your specific questions, then link to something I wrote a bit ago:

1) Mods do work with 3D Vision. I'm using a ton of retex mods, replacing pretty much everything I think looks better than the originals from skyrimnexus. Some water mods look better/worst due to the transparent water/refraction issue. The main concern here however is VRAM and GPU performance. VRAM use will skyrocket with mods and GPU requirements in 3D are roughly double that of Vsync @60Hz, so that can compound the issue. SkyUI should work without issue as I used SKSE for the memory mod and TESVal before moving on to SkyBoost (and finally Beta 1.4). Shader mods should also work but you do have to be more careful. One of the main 3D Vision fixes employs Boris' ENBseries shader injector/AntiFREEZE, so you should be able to add custom shader mods on top of that.

2) Beta doesn't fix any issues with 3D explicitly, but it does help with one of the bigger detractions of Skyrim on capable hardware, which is low framerates. With 3D Vision, you really want to shoot for the highest FPS possible per eye to maintain the sense of fluid motion. With 3D and active shutter glasses you're more susceptible to low FPS drops than in 2D imo, so while some may consider 25-30FPS acceptable in 2D, that could very quickly make you uncomfortable in 3D. The Beta for me boosts those minimums up closer to 60 always, particularly in cities, but this requires FAST hardware. I'm running GTX 480 SLI as frame of reference.

I did a similar write-up on the Nvidia forums about Skyrim's 3D Vision issues, it may seem like a lot of problems but trust me they are far more overstated in that list compared to the actual result. If you look over the thread and others you will see Skyrim is at or near the top of every 3D gamer's top games list. The bigger concern with 3D is performance, and what kind of hardware you're running. 1080p 3D @60Hz is taxing on current systems so you will need a lot of grunt in your PC to get a good experience. Anyways, here's the post you can read over, I went back and edited/updated some of the newer developments:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=215250&view=findpost&p=1340898

Chizow, thanks so much for your response. I also am running GTX 480 SLI, and your ringing endorsemant for playing Skyrim in 3D along with so many others I've read has made me decide to get a 3D Vision 2 kit and a Lightboost monitor. Which monitor do you recommend? The Asus VG278H seems to be the current market favorite.

Thanks for the thread link. There's a lot of help info there.

If you don't mind, I'd love to know what mods and settings you use since our rigs are very similar. My hope is to hit the ground running and enjoy an optimal game experience without spending 10+ hours going through trial and error tweaking and compatibility experiments. For example, I noticed on that Nvidia thread that somebody said Realistic Waters works great, but you have to disable "soft shorelines." And so much debate between dorkit's fixes vs. Boris, etc.

Have you are anybody else written a guide for tuning Skyrim for 3D Vision? I've noticed there are various 3D Vision mod fixes on Nexus, like a couple for the crosshairs, that apparently are now not needed because of updated Nvidia drivers. Since I'm new to 3D Vision, any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much. Cheers!

Np, glad it was helpful.

Sounds like you're in great shape to get started with 3D Vision. The VG278H is the current best desktop LCD 3D Vision offering, as its the largest available desktop monitor, has the updated LightBoost technology, and comes bundled with the updated 3D Vision 2 glasses. There are some reports however of QC issues with this panel and a lightbleeding effect. I have seen some loud complaints as well as ringing endorsemants, and while I think the defect rate may be slightly higher than other panels the complaints aren't uncommon compared to any other desktop LCD. I would make sure to buy from a reputable reseller however, Amazon, Newegg are generally easier to return to if you have an issue and will usually waive restocking and pay for shipping if the product was defective. I personally like to buy locally for stuff like this as its generally the easiest way to replace or return a defective item.

For the mods I have installed, if you go back to that link there's an embedded picture of the mods I had installed at the time. I've installed quite a few more since then, but none that I would consider required (just more HD retextures). The only mods I would consider essential at this point are:

• 1) Boris' ENB 3D stereo fix (fixes most water, sky, stars, moon): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=4350 requires AntiFREEZE injector: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=2531
  
• 2) Move stealth indicator mod: http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=279
  
• 3) Dorkirt's sky/star mesh (optional with ENB mod): http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=789

For game settings, you can start by using the Ultra preset. I'll do a quick rundown from here.

Go ahead and install ENB antifreeze as this will save you from having to set these options 2x.

• 1) For Antifreeze, just drop the custom d3d9.dll and enbpatch.ini in your Skyrim directory and launch the game as usual.
  
• 2) For 3D stereo fix, just drop the shaderoverride folder into your Skyrim directory.
  
• 3) If you use SKSE this should still work, if you use other custom shader mods that need a proxy .dll you have to do these adjustments yourself. I would hold off on these mods til the end however.

In the Skyrim launcher:

• 1) Set MSAA to 2x or 4x max. Its performance and VRAM heavy, and you just don't need as much AA with 3D Vision because the stereo images have a natural AA effect when composited in your brain.
  
• 2) Enable FXAA. This will blur images slightly, but also allow you to use less MSAA leaving more VRAM for texture mods. You can try both ways to see which you prefer. With FXAA I happily run 2xMSAA+2xTSAA+FXAA.
  
• 3) Leave everything in the advanced tab the same, it should be maxed to 15 or whatever the max sliders are for Ultra.
  
• 4) Set AF to x16. This shouldn't matter too much if you globally set the AF to x16 and High Quality in the Nvidia control panel, which I recommend. There's really no reason not to set this globally imo.
  
• 5) Do not check windowed mode. You have to run fullscreen for 3D with SLI, you can run windowed 3D but only with a single GPU in DX9 games.

In the Nvidia Control Panel (or Nvidia Inspector) and navigate to "Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim" profile:

• 1) Make sure you are using the latest 290.53 Beta drivers, as they had some Skyrim specific performance benefits as well as Skyrim-themed 3D Crosshairs (I actually made these lol).
  
• 2) Choose "enhance" the application settings for AA. Choose "2x supersampling" for antialiasing - transparency supersampling. If you are using 4xMSAA, you can increase this to 4x, but again, each incremental increase in MSAA or TSAA is expensive in both performance and VRAM. You probably have a good bit of experience with this as a high-end SLI user, but its worth pointing this out for anyone else who stumbles upon this thread.
  
• 3) Choose 16xAF and High Quality as mentioned if you don't already have this forced in the global profile.
  
• 4) Go down to Ambient Occlusion setting/usage and choose "Disabled" and "Off". Ambient Occlusion does not work with 3D Vision currently, so best not to waste any GPU/CPU cycles on it.
  
• 5) Under Power Management mode choose Prefer Maximum Performance if not set globally.

Once you have your monitor installed, glasses charged, and drivers reinstalled (you may have to reinstall them to get the various 3D components recognized), you will need to set-up 3D Vision:

• 1) Open the NVCP and navigate to "Stereoscopic 3D" and click "Setup Stereoscopic 3D"
  
• 2) Click the checkbox to enable stereoscopic 3D. This should automatically launch you into the configuration Wizard. Follow the on-screen prompts with your glasses to verify everything is set-up and connected properly.
  
• 3) After exiting the wizard and confirming 3D works, go back into the NVCP and choose "Change 3D Laser Sight". Scroll down to the bottom to choose one of the Skyrim themed crosshairs.
  
• 4) Click on Set Keyboard Shortcuts and "Show Advanced in-game options". Click the box to enable these keystroke settings. This is very important, as adjusting convergence is one of the single most important features to ensure a good 3D Vision experience.
  
• 5) For the Depth slider, I would start conservative by setting it from 25-50%.

Now you're ready for a dry-run of Skyrim in 3D. I would hold off on mods and INI tweaks until after this stage just to minimize any potential issues or troubleshooting steps. If you already have mods installed or INI tweaks you can just try them without disabling them, they shouldn't cause any issues.

• 1) Once you run Skyrim, you should notice your monitor flickers and brightens and the glasses darken as they begin shuttering. The emitter light on your monitor may also brighten to let you know 3D is kicked on.
  
• 2) You'll see the Skyrim logo and it should be in 3D. Go ahead and load a game or start a new save. Ideally you load an existing game as it will be hard for you to adjust the 3D during the opening cutscene.
  
• 3) Go into the Game/Graphic settings and disable Crosshair. Also disable floating quest markers. You can use the Nvidia 3D Crosshair you chose by hitting Ctrl-F12.
  
• 4) Once you are in a stationary position, you will want to draw your weapons in 1st person mode to adjust convergence. Your hands and weapon may seem out of focus and uncomfortable; staring at them may make you feel as if you are crosseyed. To adjust this, hold Ctrl-F6 for a few seconds, may take as long as 5-10s before you start to see the image begin to shift. You should see your hands come into focus, then break again. Generally for convergence settings, you want to be able to focus on what's behind your hands without your hands being too far out of focus. What's comfortable setting here is going to be different for everyone, so you do need to play with this a bit to see what you like. Once you find a setting you like, you can then try to adjust depth (ctrl-F3 and F4) as you like, then adjust convergence again as needed. This is just the easy description of how to calibrate without getting into all the science of what these settings are doing.
  
• 5) Hit Ctrl-F7 to save your convergence settings, this will automatically apply this setting next time you load Skyrim, however the Depth value is set globally and will change game to game so you need to remember what your general Depth setting is.
  
• 6) Run around a bit to make sure your settings are comfortable, and take in Skyrim a bit in all its 3D Glory.

After you're satisfied you have 3D set-up properly, you can exit the game and apply any advanced tweaks and start loading all your texture mods.

• 1) I applied most of the INI tweaks found in the first GeForce guide except AO ofc which doesn't work with 3D: http://www.geforce.com/Optimize/Guides/five-fast-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-tweaks-guaranteed-to-make-your-game-look-even-better
  
• 2) ugrids to 7 is safe for sure, I tried going to 11 and even 9 recently but hit some hardlocking issues, but from what I've read this may be due to the last beta patch.
  
• 3) For texture mods, you can see the pic I posted in an earlier link, I've added quite a few more since then and none of them are incompatible that I've found. Realisic waters may help the water issue, I do not use it.
  
• 4) SKSE and any dependent mods should work fine with ENB and 3D Vision, custom shader mods I can't say for sure.

Anyways, that's a lot to read and digest, I'll try to add more if I missed anything later but that should be enough to get you started. It looks like a lot but I'm sure a lot of this is just covering ground you've already been over. As for a comprehensive 3D guide, I have not seen one, there may be one in the works not sure, but in general the 3D Vision thread on Nvidia's forums are an excellent resource if you have questions or problems. It can just be hard to find the latest responses because info gets buried in those massive threads pretty quickly. Hope that helps, lmk if you have any other questions or concerns.

chizow -

Thanks for such a comprehensive post, I've been using 3D vision with Skyrim from the start but its nice to hear from someone that knows what they're talking about. I had no idea about AO not working. Do you know if that's just the nVidia AO, or also AO from things like ENB?

Rothbardian -

Only thing 'd add is, if you're using Antifreeze (which I highly recommend, as it not only helped me with performance but also eliminated constant CTDs I was getting in a few areas), enabling its framerate limiter worked wonders for me as far as microstutter goes. I still get periodic frame skipping in the save loading menu (of all places) but the major stutter I was seeing in caves and certain other interior spaces (like the Thieve's Guild cistern) is now gone. My current limiter settings (located in enbpatch.ini) are:

[LIMITER]
WaitBusyRenderer=true
EnableFPSLimit=true
FPSLimit=40.0

Wow, Chizow, thank you so much for the super useful information. You're well on your way to publishing your own Skyrim in 3D Vision guide! This will help me out tremendously and is greatly appreciated.

- Per Imp's post, I just wanted to follow up about the framerate limiting issue. The various approaches people have written about frame rate limiting have me a bit confused. Should I by default not limit framerate at all? Only turn it on if I notice a specific kind of stuttering? And with a rig like ours, how would you know what frame rate to limit to? Trial and error? I see the number 59 a lot for some reason. Lastly, I've seen several different ways to limit frame rate that people have advocated. Just checking to make sure Boris' ENB is the best way to do it, if necessary.

- I tried to find the mods screenshot you mentioned in the Nvidia thread, but scanning through 32 pages of posts I was unable to track it down. Is there a text string I can search for?

- Regarding Dorkirt's sky and star mesh fix, is that compatible with some of the cool sky mods I see at Nexus, like http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=85 and http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=5084?

- I imagine environmental effects like snow, rain and smoke would look amazing in 3D Vision. Do the http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=836, http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=2992 and http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=296 mods render properly?

- As I've read that the map is somehow broken or very taxing to look at in 3D Vision, I'm wondering if one of the map mods, http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=145, or http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=4929, perhaps solves the map problems?

- A final question about installing mods...and if there's a newb guide to managing mods in Skyrim, please let me know. It sounds like mods put various files (dll's, meshes, textures, etc.) in various places. How do you cleanly uninstall mods to make sure no residual files get left around to corrupt the game or cause conflicts down the road. I can also imagine weird cases where one mod overwrites certain files of one or more other mods and potentially causes problems that would be hard to track down and pinpoint.

Cheers and thanks again!!!

The shader based 3D bugfix mod that chizow recommended (which works great) relies upon the ENB Antifreeze mod, so using it's framerate limiter is probably the most convenient, and, for my setup at least, it works great. I'm running a single GTX 560 though, no SLI, so you may have a different experience. I just used the default setting of 40 fps, and it worked fine, but its easy to experiment with other numbers. The problem it fixed for me was major stutter/mouse lag that I'd see in a number of areas, most caves, and particularly the thieve's guild cistern. I think it may also help with some physics bugs (excessively high framerates can sometimes screw up physics calculations.)

Skyrim's rain, smoke, and snow effects all look great in 3D, so I'm sure mods that upgrade their textures won't cause any problems.

I highly recommend those two map mods, but they won't fix the horrendous map icon issue, that's going to require something a lot more drastic (I kind of doubt anyone's going to be able to tackle it.) The "Full 3D" mod is just a list of .ini tweaks that will make the map easier to navigate (zoom in farther, rotate it more, gets rid of the cloud cover, etc.) The other map mod just provides a higher res map texture with all roads clearly marked. It's a must if you're playing without fast travel.

Hey guys thanks for the kind words and glad you found the info useful. I'll try and hit everything in my reply:

-The AO issue we just wondered about and finally got around to testing. I personally do not use AO in general as I find it far too performance expensive for what it offers in return, so I do not know if this is only for Skyrim or other games as well. I have only verified this with Nvidia's AO, Boris' ENB AO may still work in 3D but as he documents in his notes, also carries a heavy performance penalty. Personally my strategy with 3D Vision is to crank up baseline eye candy as much as possible but to try and maintain 60FPS per eye at all costs, so luxuries like AO are generally the first to go if that means I can preserve more important IQ eye-candy features like high-res textures, AA, etc. Here's the link to the post and my methodology, you guys should be able to see the embedded pictures: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=218694&view=findpost&p=1348376

-For frame limiter, I have not used these and haven't really seen the need for it. There was some stutter when FPS dropped below 40 or so in previous builds, and quite a bit when panning the camera in low FPS situations, but these problems have improved significantly with SkyBoost/TESVal increasing minimum frame rates. 1.4B has continued to improve framerates and have also made 360 controller camera panning MUCH smoother. Again, I think much of this relies on your hardware and with 2x480 you may not need to do this. But Imp of the Universe's suggestion is a good one if you experience microstutter, as you will most likely be using ENB antiFREEZE anyways, so its just a simple INI change. Also 3D Vision by default enables a 120Hz frame cap when 3D is toggled off, and 60Hz cap per eye when 3D is toggled on. I have seen many reports of limiting frame rates to 59 but again, YMMV, and I would only bother with it if you are noticing significant input lag or microstutter.

-Here's an updated screenshot, might as well get the most up-to-date one if you can't see the older one on Nvidia's site. Sorry about that, you may only be able to see it if you're logged in. http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pv0OI5RZ--flEzY0o9UQO3q8pMTS9-NLkPldEMLWLOHeMY3pcqwipnJW05CLjwX7xz09QxIywj6aERrHrxRURWw/Skyrim%20texmods%201-31.JPG

-I can't say for sure if Dorkirt's sky and star mesh fix is compatible with other mods, I believe he changed the depth of the meshes in the .NIF files, so as long as those mods are only texture changes it may be ok. Boris' mod may be a better bet as he changes shader calls to render objects at correct depths. I can try them out tomorrow for you.

- Yes environmental effects are perfectly rendered at the correct depth and look amazing. In the northern icelands you may be looking for your windshield wiper and finding it hard to see through the blizzard. I use smoke and embers, rain and snowflakes should work without issue but I do not use them.

- World Map in Full 3D did not work for me, it just ended up crashing so I nixed trying to get it to work. Can't say for sure if it makes things better, but my guess is not. The map issues in 3D are of a different nature though, the problem is the map is in 3D and sunk in the screen but the icons and text for each city are rendered in 2D or at screen depth. So if you imagine, the game world may seem like its a foot inside your screen, but the marker for Whiterun will seem like its on the screen glass. Now, if you imagine holding your finger up to your face and then trying to focus on this text, that is kind of what the map markers and text will look like. Its not quite as bad as I describe, but it makes it hard to navigate using the map accurately. You may need to close 1 eye at first but you will get used to it. There is hope for a community fix however, as we may be able to sink all the text and markers to 3D depth using a mod by a 3D user named Helix.

-If you look at my updated screenshot, I absolutely recommend using Nexus Mod Manager to manage any mod that is supported by it if you aren't already. I'll update this in my post. In order to use NMM you need to register an account on Nexus, be logged in while browsing for mods, and look for the "Download with Manager" button always. After that, NMM smartly manages your mods, activates and deactives them, compares and alerts of any conflicts while installing mods and moves them to where they should be. There are still some manual mods however, but they are simple to manage. I'll post a screenshot of what it should look like to make it easy for you to place the files. I'm pretty sure Dorkirt's mod has the correct directory structure in place so you can just extract to your Skyrim directory: http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p1imgTajZ9EZ-Z45y_p4PziqerBeOFhQSjcq_3x1V61gIDB25NbY9cWf-EZNFSAs1QDxIo_DQQMwdiCI1UJIbRg/SkyrimDIR.JPG

Hope that covers it all, I'll update the post tomorrow and try some of those mods you were wondering about, LMK if you have any other questions.

chizow
Thanks for this Nvidia 3D Tweek guide

Thanks again, Chizow, for all the info. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of checking out the mods. I did have a couple more clarifications reading through everything again.

- I've read several threads mentioning triple buffering, and a few different ways of turning it on. Is this something I should be doing?

- Sorry if I missed something obvious, but to get the sky and stars working properly, do I have to choose between Dorkirt's mesh fix OR Boris' mod? I had the impression they both behaved together or maybe had some synergistic effect. I'd like to use those night sky enhancement mods I mentioned, so I'm hoping if the answer is an OR, not both, that the mods will work one way or another.

- Your screenshot showing the ENB file placement is for a disc install of Skyrim? I bought Skyrim on Steam so am wondering if there's a difference in where the files go.

- I'm wondering the same thing about the Nexus Mod Manager. Is it "Steam aware"?

- If you use the Mod Manager to install Skyrim HD, and then install Skyrim Realistic Texture Overhaul (I've read many rabid praises though not as popular as HD) afterwards, I assume various Skyrim HD textures would be overwritten if some of the same road/grass/rock texture files are included in both mods? I'm wondering if the files themselves get overwritten, or if the Mod Manager is savvy enough to see the load/install order and keep the overlapping files intact so that you can toggle one or the other mod on/off. In this example, if you installed both mods, and then uninstalled Realistic Texture Overhaul, would you be left with vanilla textures?

- I've seen various references to SKSE in other threads. Is it a given that to run a similar set of mods as you that I should install it?

- Not directly related to 3D Vision, but I stumbled on http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=1387 and http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=4756, so I was wondering if you or anybody else reading have tried either of these with success.

My thanks and appreciation, once again.

Boris' 3D fixes do not require Dorkirt's mesh fixes, and vice versa. Unlike the mesh fix though, Boris' mod will also fix most water, so I switched over to it and uninstalled the mesh fix. Not sure if they can be used together, but I don't see any advantage to doing so.

I'm using a Steam installed version of Skyrim, and the ENB files go in the /skyrim directory (the folder where TESV.exe is.)

NMM works fine with either version of Skyrim. All that changes is the location of the /skyrim directory, but NMM finds that automatically anyway.

NMM is also savvy enough to keep track of which mods have been installed, and in what order. If you install a mod that overwrites a previous mod's files, you're asked on a file by file basis whether you want to overwrite or not. If you then uninstall that second mod, NMM will revert things to the first mod's files that were overwritten. Past versions of Kaburke's mod managers (the unofficial ones, FOMM etc.) even had a way to manipulate which files were used after you've installed a bunch of overlapping mods, similar to .esp load order management, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something a bit more sophisticated in NMM in the future.

None of the mods I've seen linked in this thread require SKSE, and if you're beta testing (finally got back on topic, lol) you might want to avoid installing SKSE if not needed, since it takes half a day or so for the SKSE team to release an updated version after a new Skyrim update is released (which is really fast, but still an unnecessary hassle if you aren't using any SKSE dependent mods.) Once things have settled down though and a final version of the Skyrim update has been released, you're probably going to find some SKSE dependent mods that you really want (like SkyUI), so you're probably going to want to install SKSE at some point.

Thanks for answering a chunk of my questions Imp! I'm relieved to hear NMM is so robust. It will be interesting to see if Steam Workshop mod management is as good. My guess is they will not co-exist well together. Are there any other mods not on Chizow's mod list screenshot above that you recommend which behave in 3D Vision?

The other mod manager, Wrye Bash, is even more powerful (but less user friendly), but I'm a long time user of NMM's predecessors so that's what I use (plus I like's NMM's version tracking.) Once the CK is released another tool is going to become available, TESVEdit, which, once you become a more advanced mod user, is one of the best tools available for managing mod compatibility. It compliments NMM really well, but isn't very user friendly.

I'm really interested in seeing what the Steam Workshop is going to offer, but I'm guessing most of the innovation is going to be coming from NMM and other fan created mod management tools. NMM lets you import mods downloaded from other sites (in the Mods tab, select Add Mod from File, then browse to wherever the mod was downloaded to) so I'm guessing you'll be able to use it to install mods downloaded via Steam, but the reverse might not be the case.

Hey guys sorry had a busy day, but I'll try and pick up again:

1) Triple buffering - you generally don't need to do anything here because 3D Vision always kicks on its own global Vsync when 3D Vision is enabled via the NVCP. This is actually something to be aware of as an SLI user, because the SLI profile is now optimized to maximize 3D performance meaning even when 3D Vision is enabled but toggled off in-game, you will only get the equivalent of 120Hz Vsync performance on a single GPU. This means you have to actively toggle 3D Vision on/off (there's some convenient desktop shortcuts to make this easier) prior to starting a game. This may sound like a hassle, but it really isn't, because a game is either going to be so awesome in 3D that you're going to always play it in 3D, or you're not. In any case, if a DX game supports TB, then it will always be enabled, there's only a few games that don't seem to and they're native 3D quad-buffer games. Easy way to tell is you will see the 120Hz increments (at least we get that instead of 60Hz increments) of 60, 40, 30, 20, 15, 10 etc. instead of finer incremental FPS between 40-60 for if TB were enabled.

2) Yes its either Boris' or Dorkirt's. I believe Boris' shaders with Dorkirt's mesh enabled will just move those objects to whatever is specified in Boris' custom shaders. In order to use Dorkirt's, you need to move/delete those specific sky shaders from Boris. If you want to use those custom Sky enhancements however, you will just want to use only Boris' mod because it will do the same and move the objects to the specified depths as well. I just tested those mods btw in Markarth and they looked fine. There was a slightly eclipse-like corona around the moon where it overlapped the Nebula, but it was fine overall. Clouds were clearly in front. If you were wondering, some people on the Nvidia forums said they preferred Dorkirt's sky/nebula as they seemed to be brighter and closer, but again, for simplicity sake you can just stick with only Boris' + your custom sky shaders.

3) I can answer the next 3 together. My install is a Steam install but I have moved it to my SSD for performance and to the root for ease of access. Everything remains intact logically from the OS' perspective because I've created a junction to my C:\Skyrim file from D:\steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim. I do this with all the games I'm playing currently so I don't have to constantly install/uninstall games to/from my SSD, I just move them and make a junction to them.

NMM is Steam aware/friendly afaik. I believe it just scans for %:\Skyrim wherever it is located on your system as not everyone installs Steam in the same place. It also allows you to specify where Skyrim is and where you want to download mods and game cache files. For example, I keep my mod cache on my large mechanical array to save space and only the active mods are moved into my SSD's active Skyrim directory. http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p78wXa2eGqGQtkLzBd5Gq3dEhOvSs13CWwY_QYJXNBs6xAQppC6kAKaZ_wU76V2duMw-aLZueH8D263g2e8e7Zw/SkyrimNMM.JPG

If you use mods that have the same textures, it will ask you about the individual textures that conflict with other mods and whether you want to overwrite them. Generally, when updating or activating mods, you will want to go in this order: massive retex packs > specific mods you know you want more than what is in the massive retex pack and choose overwrite.

4) SKSE is more if you want to use add-ons that require it, like SkyUI or the memory viewer. I did use it at one point because TESVal required it, but once SkyBoost came out, I stopped using it and obviously no need with 1.4B. SKSE does work with Boris' ENB injector so if you want to use SKSE and any plug-in that relies on it, you can. I personally do not.

5) Both of those INI tweak/presets should be fine but I would highly recommend backing up your last 20-25 saves and your INI files before using them. Then save those files and take a look over the settings before dropping them into your settings folder. Different systems will respond differently to those kind of INI changes, I personally did many of those manually using the GeForce guide. I googlesearched a few more and came to the conclusion they didn't do much .

I'll try and get some pics of Skyrim up in 3D tomorrow to give you a frame of reference to compare against once you get your kit. What timeframe are you looking at getting the monitor?

Hey guys, thanks again for the guidance. Re: my 3D Vision kit arriving, I'm currently travelling and won't have access to my gaming rig for three weeks. So I've been using this time to figure out how to hit the ground running with Skyrim when I get home, given that I don't have any 3D Vision or Skyrim tweaking experience. On the plus side, at least it's forcing me to be patient, as the new point release will be out, along with the CK and (I assume?) Steam Workshop. Knowing Skyrim would launch with scores of "known but shippable" bugs, that's why I've held off playing till now, even though I've been excited to play the game since pre-launch.

- Chizow, for some reason I never considered playing Skyrim with my 360 controller. How do you like it? I guess that's why you don't bother with SkyUI? Are there any niggling controller bugs, or tweaks/mods required to use it? Do you find that you need to chicken peck on the keyboard often, or does everything integrate well into the controller? Is most of your time spend in first or third person?

- I've read several people claim the default FOV is not so great. Have you guys found that 3D Vision works best at default FOV? Or can you tweak FOV without 3D Vision (or other stuff) breaking? I suppose FOV tweaking is quite performance sensitive in any case, as the wider the FOV the more stuff has to be double rendered for 3D Vision?

- On the sound front, just wondering if there are any sound issues to be aware of. I'm unhappy with the sound quality on my mobo (ASUS X58 P6TD Deluxe), so if you have any recommendations on sound cards (or sound mods), I'd love to hear them.

- I see new Nvidia drivers just shipped. If you guys end up trying them, I'm curious to know if they break anything, or hopefully, improve performance.

Thanks so much!

I only have the V1 kit & i have to say it rules!

P.S. Your going to need a few week's of free time when you get home Cos your going to be travelling across Skyrim and won't have access to reality for a few weeks

Yeah same Deep Thought, only have a V1 kit and one of the original 1080p monitors and still love it even more than the day I got it because the game support is so much better now.

@Rothbardian. Its probably not a bad thing you're travelling now, I just saw a post on the Nvidia forums saying the Asus Vg278h is sold out everywhere lol. Maybe by the time you get back it'll be back in stock and they got any remaining duds out of their inventory.

- The 360 controller....I love it. One of the best purchases I've ever made for PC, got it a few years ago. Honestly it totally reinvigorated my interest in some of the games considered "console ports" or multi-platform that I just felt were clunky with mouse and KB. Now there's a lot of games I actually wished supported 360 controller that don't which can be disappointing (Mass Effects, Bioshock2 etc). Its best for 3rd person action/adventure beat-em, platformers or open world sandbox games like Batman, Assaassin's Creed, GTA4, Just Cause 2 etc. but as you can already see, some of these games cross over into shooter territory. While I personally don't recommend playing any serious shooter, especially online with the controller, it can be fun and relaxing all the same. With many games, especially Games for Windows branded titles, there's full native 360 controller support which means you plug it in, start up a game, and every key is mapped just as it would be on the 360. You get full rumble and all that, which is great in 3D as it adds a great deal to immersiveness. Kick back, put on a neck pillow/support with your 3D glasses, maybe a pair of headphones, and stop only to wipe the drool from your mouth every few hours while zonked out in Skyrim. The only way I would say it might not be worth it for Skyrim is if you play dedicated archer but with enough practice I'm sure you could get good enough anyways.

The keymaps on gamepad could be MUCH better, but for the most part they are pretty standard for 360 functionality. I don't use SkyUI because while the inventory system could definitely improve, I don't like to rely on mods like that which need to be constantly updated or potentially break with each patch. Maybe once they stop patching so much I'll check it out, but I'm also waiting for CK for more permanent UI/keymap fixes. I never have to hit my KB while playing though, everything is natively mapped/accessible on the gamepad. The only time I do is to interface the 3D Vision commands to take a 3D screenshot or turn the crosshair on/off.

- FOV - The biggest problem with increasing FOV in Skyrim is that it exhibits fishbowling at a much narrower FOV than any other 1st person game I've played. 70-75 is relatively safe, but even there you will start to notice fishbow warping on characters or objects even ~45 from center. The other problem with increasing FOV too much is that with weapons draw, your hands will start to appear closer and closer to the center of the screen in 3D. It may feel more comfortable if your arms are drawn closer to the edges of teh screen with a lower FOV as they will kind of pillarbox your crosshair/focus point. You can play with this a bit though to see what you prefer, be careful however as this can cause nausea if you set uncomfortable settings with the headbob in there as well. If you start feeling uncomfortable, take a break or reduce depth until you get more used to it. There are also some INI tweaks that allow you to completely remove the hands from being drawn, or to pull the camera further back/forward. FOV may have some impact on performance, but with 480 SLI even in 3D it should be negligible, especially after the CPU optimizations with 1.4.

- For Sound - do you have a HDMI receiver capable of 8ch LPCM? If so, you can just use the HD audio on your GTX 480. I've been using it for a bit, its pretty good. I used to use an X-Fi HT HD which is also great, but it would sit directly on top of one of my 480s. I ended up pulling it originally bc I was having some weird issues with my RAID arrays and was trying to narrow down the problem and just haven't gotten around to putting it back in. I think the big question at this point is what kind of sound/speaker set-up do you have? At this point, if you are Ok with headphones, I'd almost say just go with one of those USB headsets. I can narrow down your focus though if you give me an idea of your sound set-up.

- I'm using the latest Nvidia's but haven't tested them much. They did seem to fix a few problems for some people in a few games like Just Cause 2, I'll try them more out a bit just been busy last two days.

Chizow, your consistently helpful and detailed recommendations are, again, truly appreciated.

Like you, I greatly prefer my 360 controller for 3rd person games like Batman, but never considered it with Skyrim till I saw your post. I always considered first person as needing the snappy responsiveness of mouselook, but on your recommendation I will definitely give the 360 gamepad a run in Skyrim. And I do share your affinity for that "kick your heels up" effect that gamepads allow. I noticed in another that there are some mapping bugs, so hopefully they get fixed.

Re: sound card/speaker stuff: I have to confess to being an audio luddite. Up to this point I've just been plugging a pair of "Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10 Noise Isolating Earphones" in the headset jack of the Asus mobo. I'm embarrased to say I had to look up LPCM, and had to date been oblivious as to the audio capabilities of the GTX 480 cards.

I'm open to whatever receiver and headset/earbud or speaker combos you recommend. I don't have a receiver with 8ch LPCM capability, so I could get one...or get a sound card, which I do have room for. I work very hard, so my budget for "toys" is flexible.

One thought about 3D Vision is if using a headset, maybe it would get uncomfortable resting over the glasses for hours? Earbuds of course wouldn't have that issue. I'm open to speakers too, though I don't really have a space configuration that could accommodate 8 speakers. I could easily do 2 speakers if it's a better experience than a headset/earbuds.

How about the "virtual surround" that gets simulated with a headset/earbuds? For example, I see the http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-XFi-Titanium-Fatal1ty/M/B001BDPLJA.htm card says: "Listen to 3D positional audio so accurate, you can locate your enemies through mere sound alone! Plus, the X-Fi CMSS^?-3D gives you amazing surround sound even with normal stereo headphones."

Cheers and thanks!

Yep np,

The 360 controller is a lot smoother after the 1.4 updates, probably a mix of both input lag reduction and smoother framerates. You can increase the sensitivity which definitely helps to close the gap with mouse look speed. The big thing is just the intuitiveness of dual anolog sticks for motion and rumble for every in-game action. Instead of just hearing or seeing a dragon attack you, you can feel it as it shakes the ground around you. Its pretty sweet, especially in 3D. First time a dragon attacked me I had no idea wtf was going on lol.

Hmmm well the whole AV set-up is a bit of an investment and probably lost on just headphones. You'd want a full multi-channel surround set-up to make the most of HD audio. Not sure if you want to get into all that especially if you're space constrained. For 3.5mm headphones a sound card would work fine as they have their own onboard opamps, but from reviews/feedback I've seen, a lot of people just tend to go with those USB headsets with built-in mics. The sound quality seems to be good to excellent and also has the functionality of mic for MMO/FPS games. I see the Logitech G35/930 as popular picks by gamers and they can often be had for ~$70-80, about the same price of a discrete sound card.

As for Creative X-Fi, I'm a big fan of Creative and always have been but I'm not sure if its worth it anymore now that more and more games use software mixing for multi-channel sound and more and more graphics cards are providing onboard HD audio. You still get their sound treatments which are really good, tend to have more bass than onboard or USB solutions, but you're looking at $70-$100 + headphones on top of that instead of just $70-100 for headphones. You could also use your existing earbuds too I guess. CMSS 3D is nice but any of those USB headsets will offer similar in terms of positional sound. If you also had speakers that you wanted to use, then the X-Fi or AV amp is probably the better way to go.

With the 3D glasses, the monitor you're looking at includes the updated 3D Vision 2 glasses which were actually re-designed with gamers in mind based on user feedback. Nvidia made the arms thinner, lighter, more comfortable with headphones. They also made them out of a soft polymer instead of the hard plastic. I have 2 pairs of the gen1 glasses and they do get uncomfortable after awhile with circumaural headphones (Sennheiser RS130 for me) but I've also read reports this varies greatly depending on your headphones and head contour. In any case, you should be in good shape with the gen2 glasses.

lmk if you have any more questions

Really glad to hear the 360 controller works better with 1.4. Do you use any of the remapping mods like http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=246?

It occurred to me once you mentioned the Asus monitor is out of stock that maybe one of the 3D TVs would be a good option. I see on Amazon all these different 3D TVs, many of which say they are 240hz, like this http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN55D8000-55-Inch-1080p-Silver/dp/B004N866SU/ref=pd_sim_e_1 one and some 120hz like this http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BRAVIA-XBR46HX929-46-Inch-Local-Dimming/dp/B004QX6E4S/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328278865&sr=1-15 or http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P65VT30-65-inch-Plasma/dp/B004NPND20/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328279752&sr=1-21. They come with their own glasses though, so I'm wondering if any of the various 3D TVs on the market are compatible with the 3D Vision 2 kit. I found http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html on Nvidia's site but wasn't sure if it would work right with Skyrim (as opposed to playing 3D Blu-Rays). Assuming there's a way to get it to work, is a 27" monitor with Lightboost going to look better than a 3D TV at say 46" or 55"? Or maybe full-on TVs put out more light than monitors anyway, so Lightboot isn't needed? What do you think would give the most awesome-immersive experience?

Edit: Just looked at http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-system-requirements.html and on the "Supported 3D HDTVs" tab it only lists Misubishi TVs. To make sure I understand, only Mitsubishi TVs can be used with the 3D Vision 2 glasses? I looked at some of the models on Nvidia's list like the http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-73740-73-Inch-1080p-Projection/dp/B004ZL2OB8/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1328327786&sr=1-3, which seems to get all 5-star reviews. Would love to know if any Skyrim players have given it some 3D Vision love.

From your audio advice, I'll likely get an X-Fi card. Does the CMSS 3D "just work" with Skyrim, or do you need to do tweaking in the X-Fi or Skyrim settings to get things sounding optimal?

The image I got of your controller rumbling for some inexplicable reason right before a dragon tried to flambé you made me lol. Thanks!