Skyrim Bosses : V - Skyrim

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:48 am

Yeah. the problem is it can get a bit hackneyed - end of dungeon - boss - gazillion health - hit repeatedly while healing until dies. i kind of agree with CCNA that it's about the path and I personally think it would be better if the game did your head in by mixing it up more - chuck in some really nasty enemies when you aren't expecting them outside of the linear 'you're building up to teh boss' routine. After all, why does the boss always have to be the most powerful? It's not like your average general is ultra powerful compared to his troops. I'd like to see totally feeble bosses hiding beyond killer armies who cower pathetically when you get to them, just for a change.

The real problem is that there is really nothing to get you pumped up for the final fight. You have very little dialogue (okay there was some in the TG quest, but it was poorly written) in order to get you amped up to fight an enemy. Its go through a dungeon, kill some guys, fight a bandit chief, whatever. There are a few of these (Potema) where a little voice acting goes a long way, but most of the time, its a Bandit Chief who is, well, a bandit chief.

They could have had a few of these dungeons where they recorded a few lines taunting a player or explaining why they do what they do. So they become anonynmous badguys.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:24 pm

Hey so i just completed one of my quests I was saving up for. It was the wolf queen quest, and i was really excited by the story and lore, i had read all the wolf queen books and was really looking forward to the quest. I found the quest very well done and exciting. The way it was set up made the quest fun and everything. The only thing that bothered me was the actual end fight against potema. I found that she was easier to kill that a drauger lord or what he is called( the guy with the helmet with horns). Seeing as i have fought him many times, and only get to fight Potema once, i wish that she was more difficult than the rest of the normal enemies.

This made me think about Skyrim in general and the final bosses. I decided that none of the Final Bosses were very difficult or in turn very rememberabe. I don't know if there is a way to fix it, but that is just something that i noticed. I wish that the bosses were a little more distinct and difficult so that we could remember our battles with them for a long time. anyways just some of my thoughts.

and the difficulty is on highest so that isnt a problem, nor do i like the idea of gimping myself (even though i do) so that isnt a solution for me.

Does anyone agree or disagree? Are the Skyrim bosses lacking in difficulty or personality?

Hi hatchepsut! Good to see you're around.

Both. Skyrim bosses don't really qualify. I mean, take Alduin. It is ludicrously easy and anticlimatic to defeat him. Never once does he come across as a real character. Unidimensional would be a good way to describe the problem.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:51 am

Sorry, but that's a copout in my opinion. There is no way that a game can somehow not be about combat when over 50% of its content revolves around or involves it.

Ummm....I have a level 40 character that has zero kills.
She's completed a bunch of quests and combat is 0% of her content.

Combat is a small part of this game, or a large part...depends on what you do and how you do it.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:30 pm

Skyrim has bosses!?

That's what I was thinking.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:03 pm

well they can't be that hard or certain classes would have a hard time winning.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:39 pm

I am ambivalent about 'bosses' in FPS/RPG games.

Granted - they should have something special about them. But having a really powerful 'boss' at the end of a map or quest is a well worn technique for episode construction.

It would be TONS more fun if the bosses weren't always killed - for instance, in the last 'room' of a dungeon/ruin/lair, the 'boss' awaits, but is so utterly dangerous that the player CANNOT hope to kill him, but instead must find a way to trap or banish him in order to protect humanity. Another option - the boss has their plans thwarted and is forced to flee. This could lead to other quests as well, where the boss tries to revenge himself on the player.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Ummm....I have a level 40 character that has zero kills.
She's completed a bunch of quests and combat is 0% of her content.

Combat is a small part of this game, or a large part...depends on what you do and how you do it.

Good for you for playing in an unconventional way, that is still supportable by the content in the game. That does not dismiss that the majority of the designed content assumes you will be killing things. The fact you even can do that is a good thing, but that does not change the design, and marketing of the game.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:11 am

I am ambivalent about 'bosses' in FPS/RPG games.

Granted - they should have something special about them. But having a really powerful 'boss' at the end of a map or quest is a well worn technique for episode construction.

Emphasis on the 'worn', unfortunately. It doesn't help that all too often said boss gets overdone, with the result that you spend more time killing him than you did all of his flunkies combined. One way to address this is to spread the toughness out; this lets you 'beef up' the encounter without making things tedious, since you can take out chunks at a time by killing the additional bodies. The battle with Potema plays out much this way, although instead of attacking her directly you banish her by killing the special Draugr (it's a non-Overlord boss that uses a special template) she's using as a dimensional anchor.

It would be TONS more fun if the bosses weren't always killed - for instance, in the last 'room' of a dungeon/ruin/lair, the 'boss' awaits, but is so utterly dangerous that the player CANNOT hope to kill him, but instead must find a way to trap or banish him in order to protect humanity. Another option - the boss has their plans thwarted and is forced to flee. This could lead to other quests as well, where the boss tries to revenge himself on the player.

I'm not particularly a fan of the 'you must have X item to proceed' encounter style, as it always feels artificial somehow, but if properly handled it can make for interesting fights. I do like the idea of having the boss seek revenge, although I would want the chance to take him out for good; otherwise you spend the whole game fighting off endless hit squads, which gets tedious rather quickly.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:17 pm

Emphasis on the 'worn', unfortunately. It doesn't help that all too often said boss gets overdone, with the result that you spend more time killing him than you did all of his flunkies combined. One way to address this is to spread the toughness out; this lets you 'beef up' the encounter without making things tedious, since you can take out chunks at a time by killing the additional bodies. The battle with Potema plays out much this way, although instead of attacking her directly you banish her by killing the special Draugr (it's a non-Overlord boss that uses a special template) she's using as a dimensional anchor.

I'm not particularly a fan of the 'you must have X item to proceed' encounter style, as it always feels artificial somehow, but if properly handled it can make for interesting fights. I do like the idea of having the boss seek revenge, although I would want the chance to take him out for good; otherwise you spend the whole game fighting off endless hit squads, which gets tedious rather quickly.

I agree, the hit squads thing can get tedious.

But having a long lasting enemy in the game - maybe even a permanent one - could be an interesting twist. Think Conan The Barbarian and Thulsa Doom (from the original books, not the movies.) Or Spiderman and The Green Goblin (again, from the original comics, not the movies.)

Ya know something? I need to found my own Game studio. I would kick buttocks. ;-)

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:53 am

Bosses really need to have unique skills and abilities that aren't copy+pasted in order to be interesting in my opinion. Even if one might look only slightly different from another enemy, the real impact comes from how you defeat it, especially if it behaves drastically different from other enemies. Bethesda unfortunately, seems rather fond of simply changing something's name and calling it a day.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:16 am

I play a pure, unarmored (robes)mage on master difficulty who tends to never use followers or conjuration so some bosses have been extremely difficult for me, as well as memorable. A normal dragon fight takes me about 15 minutes of strategic planning, and it took me forever to defeat Krosis. I haven't gotten enchanting high enough to benefit from 0 casting cost so that would possibly explain it, but every single dungeon I've delved into has been a blast and a real challenge.

Still, Saber-toothed tigers are the bane of my Mage's existance, he gets like two shot by them.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:03 pm

I think the best "boss" fight in the game isn't even really a boss fight. The mission to retrieve the shard of wouthraad for the companions ends with the PC being swarmed by dozens of drauger. My first time thru that I was severly close to death at the end of it. I almost wish they had done more of this as their real boss fights leave something on the floor.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:31 pm

I think the best "boss" fight in the game isn't even really a boss fight. The mission to retrieve the shard of wouthraad for the companions ends with the PC being swarmed by dozens of drauger. My first time thru that I was severly close to death at the end of it. I almost wish they had done more of this as their real boss fights leave something on the floor.

That mission with Farkas is still one of the toughest & best moments in Skyrim for me, so much so that the next playthrough i made sure to take the stone that let me raise all the undead so it made it easier.
That was a standout fight that i would have loved to see more often in Skyrim & it left me with nowhere to run to or hide in, Pure panic fighting at it's best.

As for bosses i would like to find more of them but not at the end of a cave where you expect to find them, It would be great to bump into some serious hardarse enemies & work hard to defeat them.

I ran into Krosis early on in my first playthrough, I instantly regretted it.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:17 pm

Skyrim has bosses!?

This.

OP the main issue is your mentalty towards the game. Skyrim isnt a linear type game where you work your way through a level and then fight a hard boss at the end. Skyrim has characters, some tougher, some easier. There are no "bosses" in Skryim, although alot of bandit chiefs, lol.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:20 pm

That does not means skyrim design is good. Combat is a repetitive mechanic in skyrim. That would not be a problem if there was enough variation in the fights themselves. "Bosses" are an excellent way to do that even in a non linear game and especially important considering skyrim's weakness. The real difference with a linear game is that, the boss must not have scripted actions that makes it more special and difficult but different skills and AI -and perhaps interaction with its environment but that goes with the AI- That's the way it should be done in an open rpg.

edit: they did it a little with dragons, but it's only a start.