To start off, skyrim is a great game, and it's one i've hyped since it was announced
last year at the GOTY award show.

Now it stays true to the traditional bethesda game, huge open worlds, hundreds of
hours of content and a beautiful world. So i'll begin here, skyrim is a horrible rpg and
should be an embarassment for that reason. The game has a lack of character, personality
and what I would say a "heart."The dialogue is a joke and has no real depth with it, there
is really no "impact" behind anything the character says and doesn't really seem to matter
half the time. (All options leading to the same outcome.) Quests are really only one ended
and very pointless more than half the time. The stupid fetch quests that have plagued various
bethesda games, and ones that seem to have been just put there to say how big our game is.

Quality over quanity is was I've always said, like how in fallout 3 there were very little
side quests but each one was unique and had twists and turns with different outcomes. I
LOVED THAT, and I expected when Todd Howard said that "Skyrim is going to be a lot like
fallout 3" that's what he meant. Sure, the guilds are great (some more than others) they
still have this tedious amount of stuff. Want to unravel the dark brotherhood storyline?
Before you do that, clear out this cave and then you can continue.

On that topic, I'd like to comment on the overwhelming amount of dungeons, caves and alike.
Sure they're great, most unique and sometimes pay off with great loot, but when I have to end up
raiding a cave in EVERY quest I do it becomes a pain and boring after awhile. They made this
beautiful, absolutely stunning open world and very few quests and events take place out in them.

What makes a great RPG? A very unique and fun plot with twists, great characters and
quests with tons of different outcomes. What makes an RPG into more of an MMO? Grinding
for hours to get your smithing or enchanting to 100 (crucial if you're playing on master
level 40+) Grinding out quests like the ones in the thieves guild just to complete it's quest
line. Just a lot of things like that. I asked skyrim to be those things above and in return
it didn't deliver.

Now I know I'm going to be labeled a "troll" or "casual" but i'm simply pointing out
flaws in skyrim and I'd like to see other peoples opinions on it. Skyrim is a great game, but
imo not an rpg and shouldn't be receiving praise as "the best game ever."

I would've loved more decision-based quests like Fallout 3 where there are outcomes, but the quests are still enjoyable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game)

You fail videogame history forever. There's a good place to start.

This has anything to do with what I said? I'm not talking about a game that came out in the 80's. I'm talking about The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim.

EDIT: I'm sorry i'm not somebody who grew up playing games like this, but I fail to see how it's relevant to what I am saying.

He's saying a rogue game..which Skyrim definitely has elements of, is also a type of RPG, and that's where MMO's got the idea..rogue games existed long before there was any such thing as MMO's.

Yes, and making sweeping statements about RPGs with it.

That was pretty much the first Computer RPG. It had no plot, no characters, and one quest.

Final Fantasy 1. The first game in one of the most famous RPG series of all time. Bit more plot, few more quests, more characters - but no one especially interesting. And one HELL of a lot of grind.

Skyrim is an RPG, and in my opinion a great one.

What makes a great RPG is a question that can only be answered with opinions. I find, as with every other TES game I've played, that on the surface it seems shallow but the more you play and the more books your read and people you talk to the world becomes alive, the lore deepens the feeling of being in an actual living breathing world, with a history and memories all it's own. That to me, makes a great RPG.

I have not had to grind anything in this game, I can grind, but I do not have to grind.


Also aren't the last three letters of MMORPG, RPG?

It's nice too someone with such a Positive view from the game.We need someone like you in these forums
Yeah ,skyrim sure i'ts like an MMO since you need to farm for somethings....

The game has its flaws. It's limited in some areas and expansive in others. Beth developers made decisions on what to prioritize and what to let go. I agree with most but not all. Some folks here would counter my perspective with their own. We all have different expectations. For me, the game is fantastic, and exceeds my expectations.

There are many factors as to why the game isn't perfect. Technology constraint is probably the biggest. Time constraint is another. Financial constraint is yet another. Philosophical differences between Beth developers and the general community perhaps. Social / Cultural taboos as another. Upper management indifference. Shareholders. I could go on and on.

Ten people can agree that a particular mechanic is broken, but all ten disagree on what the end result should be. No, I don't think you're a troll, and I respect your opinion. To each his own. What's best for one, however, isn't best for everyone. Too many arguments in this forum and others come from that angle. I can't help but feel some folks' expectations are unrealistic.

I actually find fully plot-based RPG's boring as hell. I like good story...but I like to be more about an 'ambient story' that I uncover in the world, than just stuff I do by dialogue interaction etc. with NPCs. In this department Skyrim really shines, there is plenty of "story" out there for you to go uncover yourself.

I hate modern BIoware games with a passion, i'd much rather play a game that focuses on exploration and world interaction rather than linear story. I like the fact that in TES games as an above poster said, a big part of the immersion is simply you interacting wiht the world and learning about it. Of course this all opinion, but i'm definitely a 'vet' player of RPG's, and I actually prefer the ones that have some kind of open dungeon crawling/exploration mechanic vastly to those that put you on a linear path and force hours of dialogue.

There's nothing wrong with those games, they just aren't my cup of tea, and I don't consider them any more "RPG" in computer gaming terms than rogue or dungeon crawler games are.

I don't see those features that the OP listed as flaws but more of a choice that you can make. Nobody is forcing you to abuse Smithing, Alchemy, or Enchanting.

First of all I'd like to thank you guys for posting these, I was expecting to be buried in fanboyism. Like I said, this is my opinion. I just want to spark some opinions from people and see if they feel the same way.

Yeah you can side with project purity against the Enclave or you can..........side with project purity against the Enclave.

But yeah they do give you some choices in the side quests.

But the annoying amount of fetch quests? The large amount of caves involved with quests? In order to get into some great quest lines you have to do them.

The choice to choose your power in the crafting skill is not a bad thing its a choice. It allows freedom to make whoever you want.

We just talked about this the other day RPGs are the games of fetch quest.

I do agree that the game is lacking depth, a depth of mechanics and interaction.

Yeah it is a choice, but myself I like a challenge when playing games like these so I typically play on the hardest difficulty. I tried playing without enchanting, alchemy and smithing. You'll just get destroyed over and over.

Really just depends on your build, I have an assasin playing on master with nothing but alchemy, no enchants, not smithing, thieves guild armor...works fine.

Can't do master on my new character as he is spread more thinly....difficulty just has to do with the amount of damage your are pumping out with your main attack, your HP vs. enemy HP and damage..alot of points in one thing to increase damage = powerful character.

The same problem is in skyrim, but i'm not going into spoiler town.

Ok these game for me are based on choice.

The difficulty at higher levels is challenging you have to level something so you can equal the AI in terms of power, that should not be an issue. You do not need all three.

Is this your first Bethesda game? With the exception of FONV (thank you Obsidian) their publications, at least for the past 5 years, have been saturated with oppressive dungeon crawling. The cut and paste metros and office buildings in FO3? It got to a point when I "discovered" a new building I would be like "OOOOOH NOOOOOOOO I'm going to be in here for 45 minutes". Don't even get me started on the same fricken cave over and over again in Oblivion.

So actually THANK YOU Bethesda for taking a tip from Obsidian and actually making your dungeons unique and individual in appearance and double thank you for making them linear (that's right, I said it) and reasonably short so I can GTFO as soon as possible.

I do love the uniqueness of the dungeons in these games.
They are some of Bethesda best ever.
I just wish there was some more branching paths.
I do like how some dungeons are very long and that some are short, I like that mix and match.

Good summary of my thoughts too. Cheers.

I agree, but it seems that a quest is always tied to a cave and becomes extremely repetitive in that way and just seems to be filler.

Yup. Typical of Bethesda. I guess I'm not bothered because I KNEW who was publishing Skyrim before I bought it. So I'm not going to sit here and be shocked at poor writing and game design and atrocious voice acting. I'd have to be a fool to be surprised as I've been down this road before. I'll just be satisfied with gameworld/exploration/RP/loot and accept it and Bethesda/ for what they are.

I'm just glad I don't hate the game like I did Oblivion. However, it will probably take something earthshaking to get me to buy any more ES games.

Although the next one will probably be Next Gen and I'll probably be svcked in by pretty graphics on Youtube like I was this time.