Is Skyrim... lifeless?

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 7:05 pm


I mean Skyrim is great and I love it, but way too few npc's and interaction amongst npc's.

Heh..

Interaction ? Too few npcs ? You played Daggerfall, right ? And Morrowind ? Hell, you played Gothic 3 ? GTA ? Cos compared to the other big, sprawling sandboxes.. comparing apples with apples and all..
<_<
User avatar
Alex [AK]
 
Posts: 3436
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:01 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 2:18 am

Hahaha, you wish. It's going to be the same NPC's standing around as always. Just add an additional layer of brown, blur, and bloom and your good to go.

ya and just a few years ago it was call of duty: what?

times be a changin
User avatar
mollypop
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:47 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 8:18 am

I wonder what Skyrim would have been like on current hardware.


Fixed that for you. My PC is 6 years ahead of consoles...
User avatar
Lexy Dick
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:15 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 2:26 am

Daggerfall, lacked MANY things Skyrim has since had to fill space with. I can't believe you actually tried to compare Daggerfall NPC's with Skyrim. I don't mean to be rude but...that's silly.

Silly? Look at all the dialogue options you can have in Daggerfall with some worthless NPC... now look at the the lack of any dialogue with 90% of Skyrim's NPCs, and the other 10 don't even have real options.
I can't believe you tried to refute a contrast with Daggerfall. That game was (to join the intellectual bandwagon that plagues these forums) "orders of magnitude" more dynamic than Skyrim is.
User avatar
Alexis Acevedo
 
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:58 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 9:06 am

Fixed that for you. My PC is 6 years ahead of consoles...

Super powered machine running THE top of the line games that are geared for under powered machines.

Thats like having a foot powered Ferrari. Ill take my foot powered skateboard... we can go to the same places, see all of the same things, get there at the same time, your just looks a little cooler while doing it and costs a lot more.
User avatar
brandon frier
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:47 pm

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 10:42 pm

pcs now = consoles a few years from now


we shouldnt have to imagine
And you wouldn't have to if consoles couldn't put up so much more money than the PC crowd. Companies that survive pay attention to where the money is at.
User avatar
Ann Church
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:41 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 6:51 am

...um...

Fable 3 had lively and populated cities with full of life NPCs.

People have also named Witcher 2.
User avatar
Nick Pryce
 
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:36 pm

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 7:24 pm

Beth did a great job with Skyrim. NPCs are equal to the number of houses and buildings in town.

Its realistic and believable, not some artificial crowd popping up from no where with nameless people.

If they make huge towns with plenty of houses and jobs I don't mind adding tons of NPCs with dialogues, tasks and names. Until then, keep it the way it is now.
User avatar
Sabrina Steige
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:51 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 9:30 am

...um...

Fable 3 had lively and populated cities with full of life NPCs.
I'll take less crowds (and way more world) over Fable 3 any day.
User avatar
luis ortiz
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:21 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 9:57 am

The game is perfect. Buy a better computer and quit whining.
User avatar
kat no x
 
Posts: 3247
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:39 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 4:46 am

Silly? Look at all the dialogue options you can have in Daggerfall with some worthless NPC... now look at the the lack of any dialogue with 90% of Skyrim's NPCs, and the other 10 don't even have real options.
I can't believe you tried to refute a contrast with Daggerfall. That game was (to join the intellectual bandwagon that plagues these forums) "orders of magnitude" more dynamic than Skyrim is.

"Orders of magnitude" more dynamic... yes...

I think the only thing that moved in the taverns was the flames in the fireplace.. and who could forget "Halt ! Halt !" ..

And I LIKED Daggerfall.. but dynamic is not a word I would use to describe its npcs..

I know what you're going to say.. that its about the dialogue, and not the cardboard-cutout jesters in the taverns.. but its really not.
Really..

Yes, Skyrim was less Wikipedia NPC, but it was definitely more bustling town square.. IMO of course :tongue:
User avatar
HARDHEAD
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:49 am

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 7:16 pm

since oblivion beth has spread themselves too thin trying to make NPCs more lively. at this stage in technology, its best to do what most games do to make cities populated and thats to have a buttload of NPCs with simple scripts, instead of 5 NPCs with whole damn weekly schedules. they seem to be unaware of the uncanny valley effect: if you focus this much on a few aspects of human behavior like scheduled activities and individual lives, all its going to do is make us notice everything you fail to address like their insane speech patterns and vapid, empty lives of sitting at a table for 6 hours then going to sleep, waking up, and standing in a corner for another 6 hours. make them walk around aimlessly and occasionally spout something, and nobody questions it; thats pretty much all we ever see our fellow man doing anyway.

I love this post. Awesome.
User avatar
Stephanie Nieves
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:52 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 3:29 am

Beth did a great job with Skyrim. NPCs are equal to the number of houses and buildings in town.

Its realistic and believable, not some artificial crowd popping up from no where with nameless people.

If they make huge towns with plenty of houses and jobs I don't mind adding tons of NPCs with dialogues, tasks and names. Until then, keep it the way it is now.


This. They keep the population realistic to the surroundings. But at the same time, we are talking about "major hubs" of an entire region. Even the large "cities" feel like ghost towns. Like someone mentioned above, Fable had tons of NPCs that acted real enough. But at the same time, there were lots of houses and buildings and what not that were not accessible by the player, but animated and in the world none the less which did help make it believable that there should actually be lots of NPCs around. But as a whole, Skyrim does feel under populated is what Im getting at I guess.

Where are the caravans of traveling merchants? where are the hunting parties? where are the damsels in distress I must rescue from a troll in the woods?

The key to making a world believable is the world. I know I know easier said than done. this game is a giant step in the right direction. I cant wait to see where the next one lands.
User avatar
Hairul Hafis
 
Posts: 3516
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:22 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 am

There are frequently 12+ people in The Bee and Barb in Riften. I think that's quite a lot for the size of the world. :shrug:
User avatar
Kayla Bee
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:34 pm

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 11:36 pm

At what time during the night are you hanging out? Past a certain time they all leave and go to bed. The taverns in the larger cities seem to have plenty of people in them during the evening hours. The ones out in the boonies dont have quite as many.
User avatar
Jonathan Egan
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:27 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 2:10 am

So how long before we have AI equivalent to humans and bustling cities? Within my lifetime I hope...

Skynet ?
User avatar
Anthony Rand
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 5:02 am

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 9:52 pm

"You can even play msuic and have bar brawls break out in taverns"

Liers.
You can request a song to be played and you can have brawls.
User avatar
carly mcdonough
 
Posts: 3402
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:23 am

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 9:34 pm

One of my favorite mods for Oblivion was one I made myself: I made about 40 named npc's, with no unique dialogue or quests, their only purpose was to walk the streets and chat with people.

And you know what? It felt so much more realistic. To actually look down a street and see several npc's chatting while 2 others pass by and another speaks to a guard, it was almost like you'd expect a real town to be.
Bethesda tends to favor quality over quantity in npc terms. And while that's good in a sense, it also makes cities and towns feel small, underpopulated, and unrealistic.

First thing I'm gonna do when the CK comes out is make the exact same mod I did in Oblivion for Skyrim. If it ever gets released that is... :glare:
User avatar
Causon-Chambers
 
Posts: 3503
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:47 pm

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 7:18 pm

Taverns are very well done imho. /sings Ragnar the Red
User avatar
Queen Bitch
 
Posts: 3312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:43 pm

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 5:13 am

...um...

Fable 3 had lively and populated cities with full of life NPCs.

People have also named Witcher 2.

I don't think those people from taverns in Witcher 2 ever went home or slept.

But, this is indeed what some people want, a lively tavern even if it is unrealistic that they don't do anything but sit in taverns all day long. The devs could compromise by adding "bum" npcs that just spend all day drinking at taverns, or gamble all day long.
User avatar
Holli Dillon
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:54 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 1:58 am

So was Morrowind. It is still a great game IMO.
User avatar
Mizz.Jayy
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:56 pm

Post » Mon May 28, 2012 6:50 pm

Daggerfall, lacked MANY things Skyrim has since had to fill space with. I can't believe you actually tried to compare Daggerfall NPC's with Skyrim. I don't mean to be rude but...that's silly.

Haha, it does seem silly, especially considering how generic they were. But in actuality, there were countless NPC's in the cities of Daggerfall. They may have all said the same things, practically, but wouldn't you expect that from the average townfolk? They would give you directions to the shops or whatever else you were looking for... sometimes even the wrong directions. They served their purpose. They were there for atmosphere. They were "nobodies" as they were in medieval times.

Besides, there is something that may be easily overlooked. In Skyrim, there are also NPC's that serve absolutely NO purpose other than to be extra bodies in town. Not only that, but they have a LOT less to say to you than the random townsmen of Daggerfall. They are just like the guards, only with no combat skills. They will repeat a phrase over and over when you try to talk with them... not even going into dialogue mode. Indeed, they may look and sound better than their Daggerfall counterparts, but they do a much less effective job.


It's not that, but newer games have so much more [censored] to go through to get anything in the game. All these graphics come at a big price, voice acting a huge price also. It's not so much a limit of their ability, but of the technology. You can only do so much, if you want more NPC's be prepared to sacrifice some development time that could have gone to something else. Modern technology costs a hell of a lot to use, unlike the smaller simpler technology of yesteryear. An example of this is Dwarf Fortress, now that has TONS of stuff to do. But look at the cost of developing that much features, the bar minimum one could call graphics and sound. It's largely text based, but there's just so much in the world that it's gigantic. Perhaps one of the biggest games around. I would say game developers are crushed for time, there's just only so much manpower and technology to do this stuff.

That is very true. Today's technology takes a lot to implement. However, that is a poor excuse to make games that actually play worse than they did with inferior technology. I'm not saying that's the case with Skyrim specifically, but in general. After all, Skyrim and Oblivion are running on the same systems. The technology is quite old in relative terms. That means there should be a LOT of improvement on implementation. Why have the cities in Skyrim grown even smaller than those of Oblivion?

Still, what does it say about newer technology when you supposedly can't do half the things you could do with the older technology? I don't know about this "Halo" generation, but give me depth in gameplay instead of graphics... especially in an RPG. New technology should mean games will progress, not regress. In these days of multi-terabyte hard drives, 32+ GB of RAM, and Blu-Ray discs, size should be one of the least concerns for game development. I understand that consoles don't have such a capability yet, but I've honestly played better games when I had 32mb of RAM.

But thank you for the mention of Dwarf Fortress. I'll have to check it out! By the way, is there anything wrong with text-based dialogue?


I think the difference lies in current generation games needing NPCs with hair that blows lovingly in the wind and that scratch themselves when standing around in pants you can tell are linen or leather. Me? I'd rather have the quantity.

Haha, too true, too true! I can do without kill animations if it comes at the cost of a broken combat system :-P


yes ES:VII will rock indubitably
------------------
imagine... graphics out the yinyang, facial feature animation that makes la noire look like dog crap, environments that make skyrim's world look like the map in super mario world, combat as tight as a top tier fighter, a story like the godfather, and being able to start forest fires with fire spells...

If that's truly the case, you should look into the cryo-stasis technology they have nowadays. Because I fear that TES VII will not be released for MANY generations to come :-(


Fable 3 had lively and populated cities with full of life NPCs.

Just a friendly piece of advice... HIDE!
You said... the "F" word! ;-P
User avatar
Bee Baby
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:47 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 am

It has a lot of bugs....do they count as life?

Uldred
User avatar
louise hamilton
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:16 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 9:28 am

Generally speaking I don't mind the lack of people in town because they only serve as a place to buy/sell/store stuff in between me killing stuff, but I will say I was surprised when I first entered White-Run and couldn't find these 'districts' the people in Riverwood told me about. :P
User avatar
Jacob Phillips
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:46 am

Post » Tue May 29, 2012 4:28 am

Plenty of people in taverns between 8 and midnight. Argumnets, brawls, bards singing, people to speak to. Apart from karaoke I fail to see what more you can ask for.

Shocking lack of brothels I will concur with though.

Its not an RPG unless it has a "lady of the night" in it.
User avatar
Amy Melissa
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to V - Skyrim