Skyrim Logic: uhm what o.0 (Spoilers are some what un avoida

Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:52 pm

So yesterday I received a quest from the Jarl of Whiterun to slay a dragon .... his reasoning was that because my character had run away from Helgen with only intentions of getting the crap out of there so that it may live another day, that automatically makes my character more skilled at fighting a dragon then any one else ...

I'm a bit confused as to how running away = I'm skilled at fighting a dragon

Will I encounter more of this type of logic as I continue through Skyrim ?
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{Richies Mommy}
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:04 pm

You have the most experience of dragons than anyone he knows of. That is the reason.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:45 am

To be fair, Barlgruuf isn't psychic, and you never have the option of telling him how much of a milk-drinker you was at Helgen. I guess he makes the mistake of assuming you are something you aren't? ;P

The lore behind the origin of mortals using the thu'um confuses me a little, as I am sure I have seen 2 ways that it came about. One was an Aedra (I think Kyne? Not sure, not totally up on the gods, or even the lore for that matter, I know enough to make the game world very interesting, but not so much that I ain't interested in finding out more, anyway, I digress), that gave the gift of Thu'um to mortals, and the other was that Parthuunax taught the first few mortals, who then passed it along since then I guess. Which one is true? Even though the game kinda says they are both true (That can't be, as there can't be 2 true origins of the same thing). Wish I could remember the relevant books that state the aforementioned. :( Sorry for maybe off topic.
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DAVId MArtInez
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:19 pm

I think Kyne?
It was supposed to be Kyne's daughters, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne#Kyne. So we have a serious retcon going on.

Fighting dragons? You are the only person they have ever met who has even seen one. And running or not, you are still alive to tell the tale. You will have to do.
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Marguerite Dabrin
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:51 pm

To be fair, Barlgruuf isn't psychic, and you never have the option of telling him how much of a milk-drinker you was at Helgen. I guess he makes the mistake of assuming you are something you aren't? ;P

The lore behind the origin of mortals using the thu'um confuses me a little, as I am sure I have seen 2 ways that it came about. One was an Aedra (I think Kyne? Not sure, not totally up on the gods, or even the lore for that matter, I know enough to make the game world very interesting, but not so much that I ain't interested in finding out more, anyway, I digress), that gave the gift of Thu'um to mortals, and the other was that Parthuunax taught the first few mortals, who then passed it along since then I guess. Which one is true? Even though the game kinda says they are both true (That can't be, as there can't be 2 true origins of the same thing). Wish I could remember the relevant books that state the aforementioned. :( Sorry for maybe off topic.
Kyne gave them the power of the Voice. Paarthrunax taught them "The Way of the Voice" - which is pretty much a Draconic Hippy-movement.

Alternative theory - The Aedra do not have the power to act on the mortal world as directly as the Daedra. However, they can influence every part of creation on a much greater scale. Kyne gave the mortals Thu'um through Paarthurnax.
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Crystal Clarke
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:44 pm

That can't be, as there can't be 2 true origins of the same thing
why not?
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Laura Elizabeth
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:51 pm

when looking at your post, it is your logic i have trouble understanding :S not the game.
Would you be happy if he said something like: I heard you ran away like a schoolgirl at Helgen. I'm sure you dont have the nuts to go after it, so just go buy a house and go mingle with the townsfolk, catch up with the local chit chat, and play hide and seek with the children.
This would ofcourse make your character unable to absorb its first soul, and you would basically fail learning shouts. And you would prolly have better luck playing The Sims anyways.

you're playing a game where you're a dragonborn, born with a dragons soul, intended to slay the badest dragon of them all... If asked to hunt a dragon doesnt fit your idea of a skyrim adventure, or otherwise challenge your logic of how this game should be, i'd strongly advice you to find another game.

no really. buy something else.
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Alberto Aguilera
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:48 pm

It was supposed to be Kyne's daughters, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Kyne#Kyne. So we have a serious retcon going on.

So we will never actually know which is true? Looks to be a lot of lore to read up on too, so every Aedra has a Nord counterpart? Which is essentially the same Aedra just with a (slightly) different name?

New posts made while I wrote this, I like this forums "show me" thing. :)
So essentially both stories have truth within them, as Kyne gave the ability for mortals to even use thu'um, and Paarthunax was merely the teacher to mortals on how to use that power. I get it now. No other game makes you think like ES do. It's how you interpret what you read more than what you are actually reading.
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emily grieve
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:51 am

One of the beautiful things about the Lore in TES is its ambiguity. Not all Lore is correct, or more precisely it is slanted to a particular point of view.

Two people witnessing the same event will describe it differently based upon their own personal experience and observations. Books especially in the TES series should always be taken with a grain of salt. You must understand the authors viewpoint when considering what actually may have happened. You can't just read a book and assume that it recorded events accurately, just like in real life.

You have to read the book and understand the agenda or desired effect upon the reader that the author was also trying to convey.
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!beef
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:58 pm

Kyne gave them the power of the Voice. Paarthrunax taught them "The Way of the Voice" - which is pretty much a Draconic Hippy-movement.
So essentially both stories have truth within them, as Kyne gave the ability for mortals to even use thu'um, and Paarthunax was merely the teacher to mortals on how to use that power.
The stone tablets on the way to High Hrothgar explains it. Kyne sent Paarthurnax to teach men Thu'um, so they could out-shout dragons. Jurgen Windcaller instituted "The Way of the Voice" (the shouting hippy movement), which the Greybeards are founded on and subsequently are lead by Paarthurnax.
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ShOrty
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:39 pm

So yesterday I received a quest from the Jarl of Whiterun to slay a dragon .... his reasoning was that because my character had run away from Helgen with only intentions of getting the crap out of there so that it may live another day, that automatically makes my character more skilled at fighting a dragon then any one else ...

I'm a bit confused as to how running away = I'm skilled at fighting a dragon

Will I encounter more of this type of logic as I continue through Skyrim ?
To be fair, the first encounter with the Dragon can be resolved by merely watching all the guards and Ireleth do the dirty work. You're sent there on the premise that you've seen a Dragon attack and maybe you can dish out a few suggestions to the people involved.

Far from me defending Skyrim quests with their many loopholes but this is a rather minor aspect imho.
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Rachel Tyson
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:55 am

The stone tablets on the way to High Hrothgar explains it. Kyne sent Paarthurnax to teach men Thu'um, so they could out-shout dragons. Jurgen Windcaller instituted "The Way of the Voice" (the shouting hippy movement), which the Greybeards are founded on and subsequently are lead by Paarthurnax.

Ahhhh, I'll have to re-do that walk then, I read them all on my first time up, but you know, with the frost troll and a dragon, I kinda forgot the beginning gist of the story on the stones.

Yeah, I noticed how nothing ever seems absolutely true or absolutely false, the Saadia/Alik'r quest would be a good example of that I suppose. (Although that's more gameplay than lore I realise, but I mean the theory of how it happens)
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:01 pm

when looking at your post, it is your logic i have trouble understanding :S not the game.
Would you be happy if he said something like: I heard you ran away like a schoolgirl at Helgen. I'm sure you dont have the nuts to go after it, so just go buy a house and go mingle with the townsfolk, catch up with the local chit chat, and play hide and seek with the children.
This would ofcourse make your character unable to absorb its first soul, and you would basically fail learning shouts. And you would prolly have better luck playing The Sims anyways.

you're playing a game where you're a dragonborn, born with a dragons soul, intended to slay the badest dragon of them all... If asked to hunt a dragon doesnt fit your idea of a skyrim adventure, or otherwise challenge your logic of how this game should be, i'd strongly advice you to find another game.

no really. buy something else.
Ironically, if he said that to me, it would be an even more compelling reason to do it just to prove him wrong. =3
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:08 am

I just thought of another case of "skyrim logic".

It is with regards to skooma and it's legality, it's an illegal drug, yet it has the same benefits as a legal stamina potion, although NPC's in game claim to get addicted (no spoilers as always).
Sleeping Tree Sap is not illegal, and actually gives you a "drugged" effect, very trippy, very weird with the aurora lol.

Anyway, skooma with no downsides (gameplay wise) is an illegal narcotic, sleeping tree sap (with 2 negative side effects, and 1 huuuge positive effect) is legal (as far as I can tell).

Anyone able to clear this one up either way?
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Hazel Sian ogden
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:40 pm

Go into 3rd person. Notice the neon sign flashing above your head that says

"I am Dragonborne and the Legendary Savior of the Land"
"Shop at Sams for all your Weapon Needs"

That is why the Jarl thinks you can fight a dragon.
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:30 pm

Go into 3rd person. Notice the neon sign flashing above your head that says

"I am Dragonborne and the Legendary Savior of the Land"
"Shop at Sams for all your Weapon Needs"

That is why the Jarl thinks you can fight a dragon.

I'm the dragonborn, and this is my favorite store in Whiterun.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:26 pm

Go into 3rd person. Notice the neon sign flashing above your head that says

"I am Dragonborne and the Legendary Savior of the Land"
"Shop at Sams for all your Weapon Needs"

That is why the Jarl thinks you can fight a dragon.

LOLwut?

Maybe something I am missing to "get" it? :P

Care to explain? I like learning ES things :D
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Robert Jr
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:28 pm

The jarl doesn't give you the quest immediatly after running away from Helgen. You also have to complete Bleak Falls Barrow for Farengar. So you have
a) Witnessed and survived a dragon attack
and
b ) Proven you are actually capable of fighting.
I fail to see how this is illogical.
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xemmybx
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:40 pm

Well, the first line is pointing out that you are the Dragon Borne the second line is I had room on the sign so I added some advertising as I need some extra income.

No one gets my humor, it was a reference to Mad Magazine back in the 60's when they would add things like this to signs characters in their cartoons were carrying. There would be a subtitle on the protest signs or picket signs that said "Eat at Joes"
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-__^
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:15 am

Well, the first line is pointing out that you are the Dragon Borne the second line is I had room on the sign so I added some advertising as I need some extra income.

No one gets my humor, it was a reference to Mad Magazine back in the 60's when they would add things like this to signs characters in their cartoons were carrying. There would be a subtitle on the protest signs or picket signs that said "Eat at Joes"

Ahh okay, I'm not 60's old :P
Barely 80's old xD
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Evaa
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:16 pm

Go into 3rd person. Notice the neon sign flashing above your head that says "I am Dragonborne and the Legendary Savior of the Land" "Shop at Sams for all your Weapon Needs" That is why the Jarl thinks you can fight a dragon.
You must be on to something here! The Jarl knew to send you because of ... Quest markers above your head! He had in his log an entry saying "Find a poor sap suicidal/stupid enough to take on a dragon" and the arrow pointed to you.
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Beast Attire
 
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Post » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:03 am

The worst offender was when i found "injured" imperial soldiers in a tent at one of their bases. In any other game it would add to the atmosphere of the war. In skyrim's case all it did was make me roll my eyes. Seriously bethesda you give everyone access to a healing spell no matter what they choose and you can even get the healing hands spell right off the bat as well but you have soldiers sitting around injured. All it did was make bethesda look stupid.

I still want an explanation of why I'm supposed to kill Alduin. First off, he saved my bacon at helgen. That there alone is enough for me to buy him an ale at a tavern. Secondly, some people somewhere tell you that (paraphrased) "People that are trying to save the world might be allowing it to happen more quickly and people that are trying to end the world might be delaying it" Between those two things i don't see why I am supposed to destroy in in the first place.
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Cayal
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:32 pm

The worst offender was when i found "injured" imperial soldiers in a tent at one of their bases. In any other game it would add to the atmosphere of the war. In skyrim's case all it did was make me roll my eyes. Seriously bethesda you give everyone access to a healing spell no matter what they choose and you can even get the healing hands spell right off the bat as well but you have soldiers sitting around injured. All it did was make bethesda look stupid.

I still want an explanation of why I'm supposed to kill Alduin. First off, he saved my bacon at helgen. That there alone is enough for me to buy him an ale at a tavern. Secondly, some people somewhere tell you that (paraphrased) "People that are trying to save the world might be allowing it to happen more quickly and people that are trying to end the world might be delaying it" Between those two things i don't see why I am supposed to destroy in in the first place.

That actually makes sense. They are Warriors, not mages.
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Nuno Castro
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:11 pm

Haha, I never even thought of that when I first saw some injured soldiers!
Next time I see em I won't feel sorry for 'em, I'll tell em to stop being a baby and use what they was born with! (I'm assuming my character was born with healing spell)
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Pawel Platek
 
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Post » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:16 pm

That actually makes sense. They are Warriors, not mages.

Um, my nord had a healing spell right away at the start of the game. Also, why didn't they just use an imperial battle mage or better yet wait for their health to regen. Considering how easy it is to heal yourself in Skyrim it just looks silly to put injured soldiers anywhere. They would have been better off having a row of dead soldiers covered up outside the camp waiting for burial. That would have been plausible.
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naomi
 
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