Skyrim is easily the best Elder Scrolls yet from an adventuring standpoint. The whole experience of traveling the land is perfect, from the gorgeous world design to the unique and interesting dungeons, to the random encounters and the fact that the game can actually be really hard even at a high level.

But it's easily the worst Elder Scrolls from a stealth/crime perspective. There's nothing to steal, there's no quests that involve crime outside of the Thieves and Assassins guilds which I think we can safely agree are the worst guilds of any Elder Scrolls game. It seems like the world was designed entirely around adventuring, which is ok, but it's disappointing for someone who loves playing a criminal so much.

Does anyone else feel this way? I really hope the next game retains Skyrim's adventuring, but brings back Oblivion's amazing crime world

I have to agree with this right here. I loved being a thief in Oblivion.

k

This may explain why assassins avoid the place. You don't have many good sniping areas. I find that the game isn't as fun to be a thieving, murderous guy in. There's also too small of areas for assassinations to be as fun.

There should be a karma system like in fallout, where being evil affected your dialogue and story options. Bring some life back to criminality.

To be honest I feel this way for mages, fighters, thieves and assassins not only are there no class dependant quests, but the guilds are extremely disappointing.

Yeah, the dearth of hand-placed high level loot makes thieving much less attractive.

I think the thieves and assassin guilds are actually the best in the game. Mostly because the companions suffered from some of the worst plot pacing I have ever seen and the mages guild can be completed in like, 2 or 3 hours.

However, my beef with the thieves guild is that there is no actual sneaking. Thus I agree with you on it is terrible for a stealth character.

And there is nothing to steel. Sure, guards have maybe 10 gold a piece, and a few steel arrows, but both of these are so abundant that there is no reason to steel them. Also, shopkeepers don't have unique loot like in the previous game.

I agree with this. I found playing a thief much more enjoyable in Oblivion than in Skyrim. That may just be nostalgia of course - but sneaking around the Imperial City at night, stealing from the rich, just trying to make a living...some of my favourite moments in Oblivion.

Skyrim is great for adventurers - it's even great for sneaky adventurers - though when it comes to being a lowly criminal I think you're right, it's lacking at best - although I thought the Dark Brotherhood question was seriously bloody good.


Yeah, you've got a serious point with mages - the College only has about 6 quests all-told.

I have to disagree. Assassin / thief is where I've had the most fun. Not only are they some of the better guilds - are you really going to tell me that the Mage college trumps the Dark Brotherhood? - but yield decent free-roam RP value. Sneaking into a certain city or town and giving myself an objective to steal a certain item or kill a NPC without being seen by ANYONE is both challenging and fun.

I wouldn't mind some tweaks to gear us back towards Oblivion, but anything resembling the omniscient guards of said game is just plain bad design.

While I did have alot of fun doing the TG it was more in trying to do the whole questline w/o getting a bounty or killing anyone. Didn't quiet make that. Only a 5 septim bounty though and that was gotten on the road, so didn't count to me, same as killing bandits they didn't count in my play either...as long as it wasn't "on the job"

I thought the DB would be along the same lines, the injoyment I would get out of it would be in the planning and not getting caught... it wasn't either I finished it but as quickly as possible..

I did injoy TG in Oblivion better... didn't do the Assassins guild.

I don't find this at all. With the pickpocket perks, Thieve's Guild questline and large number of Palaces/Longhouses, I don't find any lack of items to steal. What I'd like to see is some sort of high-security area - containing huge amounts of gold, but almost impossible to get into undetected.

In terms of assassins, I agree that I'd like some more vantage points. The upstairs platforms in Dragonsreach are on the right track. My assassin took up a personal vendetta against the Penitus Oculatus, and the walls of Castle Dour provided some excellent spots for long-range assassinations.

And for the record, I don't find the Thieves or Assassins factions to be the worst ever in TES series. I consider them equal to the past games - superior when comparing the Dark Brotherhood questlines, actually.

Yeah, I feel like for fighters and mages, in order to progress, you have to have one skill above a certain level in warrior mage trees respectively, and in thieves and assassins, you incur a bounty if caught, meaning you have to be sneaky.

My complaint is that the constant dragon encounters punish those who don't focus on a combat over stealth/non-combat skills, aka myself. I had to restart my very skilled sneak thief to focus on more combat skills first. I wish Bethesda didn't think 'random dragon encounters! ' was such a good idea. :l

Are you serious? There was nothing worth stealing in aabout 95% of homes in Oblivion. Jewelry was fairly worthless, and they rarely had any gold.

well, yeah, you have to skip the MQ and CW all together, but I think for a stealth character, that is natural. I mean, could you imagine an assassin Dragonborn or war hero.

I haven't done a lot of sneaking in Skyrim, but when I tried playing a thief, I was quickly put off by the number of NPCs who don't sleep.
Kills some of the immersion.

I agree with most of what you're saying but it's not a fact that the game is not hard at high levels. It depends on how people build their characters and how much cheese you'll use, and really it's pretty bad as far as offering enjoyable combat mechanics not to mention the horrible balancing and character building system. The fighting part of adventuring is not one of the game's strong points. Really the only thing Skyrim excels in is its game world which is, as you say, a cool place to explore. Once you've explored it though, the actual game inside that game world is pretty mediocre - and I'd say just bad for an AAA game.

Exactly.

College spoiler

As for the thieves guild, they should of named it the fighters guild, as I've probably killed more people in it than I have in the companions.

The Dark Brotherhood though is also more of a upfront kill the person and involves very little sneaking I felt.

A certain Argonian from Solitude and a certain beggar from Markarth would like to respectfully disagree, and distract you whilst they clear out your pockets

I steal arrows/gold/jewelry for the fun of it...so that part of it doesn't bother me. What does is how easily most wildlife can detect you at any level of sneak.

There is one thing that Skyrim did improve on as far as crime goes. The guards aren't Professor Xavier anymore.

DB has a little bit of mandatory sneaking, but not much, still, it is better than nothing. In the thieves guild, there were only like, 2 quests where you could sneak.

As for the college, all the ones you need are :Flames, Frost, Ward, and some random low novice or apprentice level spell. Yeah, not very arch-magey.

Yes there was, how else did you think people managed to get the special assignment tasks. All you had to take was peoples weapons, armour and gems and not steal from the waterfront houses.

Most wild animals have fairly keen senses. It's not completely unreasonable. Though at high sneak w/muffled movement and light armor I don't recall having any problems.