So skyrim, it's mostly awesome.
Not the complete freestyleness bethesda promised, at all. But mostly free.

I give it a 9/10.

Pros.

Awesome pick your own style system.

Alchemy is awesome. It is like alchemy should be. It is like alchemy in games was before Atelier Rorona broke the entire alchemy game type into a plotless, bossless, enemyless joke and spat on the bloody remains.

Some good weapons and armour. Weapons are mostly awesome.

Very addictive.

Good choice of races.

Awesome deadric quests and weapons.

Lots of quests.

Cons
And there are a lot.

Skyrim has the worst system I have ever seen in any game ever! That system is broken!
The game may be open world but some of the quests are so not, at all.
There is more choice in Fallout 3, a game that forces your evil, kill happy, town exploding, modified FEV in the water, slaver, dj killing, scourge of the wasteland to being a soppy daddys girl/boy and won't let you side with the enclave properly.
That game is 99% free. You can kill whoever you want, do whatever you want, fail any quest whenever you want, all the time. There are substitutes all over the place. You kill 3 Dog, Margeret takes over. Theres probabely substitutes for Sarah Lyons and Elder Lyons. I never tried it because I like the Brotherhood of Steel.

There are linear, traditonal rpgs with more choice than this game.
Dragon Age Origins has more choice that skyrim. You can choose at least 2 options in most quests, and you can kill any side you want most of the time.
You hate the annoying elves in the werewolf quest? Then slaughter away with the werewolves.
It is within the set up of the quests, but it gives you the options! Lots of options!

Fallout New Vegas has a perfect system. You can kill anyone you like, do anything you like, you have very present consequences for your actions, 100%free. Full of substitutes.
You kill Cesaer, Lucius takes over, kill every single Caesers Legion you see, Legate Lanius takes over, offscreen, and only appears at the end.
The important people are always somewere else so you can never destroy the main quests.
You can blow up the BoS bunker any time you like. Do all the factions people want to deal with for the main quest in advance.
There is always the independant path if you screw up the other 3 options or they go wrong.
When people ask you to 'deal with' factions in the main quest, they don't care how you do it. You can kill them all, deal with them, kill one or 2 people, so long as you do something, it's fine. If it bugs out, you always have the option to kill everyone.
If something goes wrong on skyrim, you are screwed. No massacre option sometimes.
There is one person in the entire game with a essential tag. ED-E in Lonesome Road dlc. And given that is a brutal dlc at times, and if he died in hardocre mode, it would be uncompletable, it is reasonable.

So, bethesda made FO3, they knew about FONV. And yet they made that broken piece of crap system.
Skyrim is a identical system to FO3 and FONV. It has a system like S.P.E.C.I.A.LS.
But with only 3 base statistics. Which is wierd, quite frankly. You'd think there would be charisma and intelligence too. Most games have them.

So knowing all this, they went and tagged EVERY F**KING PERSON IN SOME QUESTS AND FACTIONS APART FROM THE DARK BROTHERHOOD!
You can't massacre anyone you want. If you hate someone, you can't do what the most linear rpg like DA:O has and kill them or go against them. NO!
They don't even let you kill people you are supposed to! General Tullius says wipe out stomcloak resistance. So you go, you kill everyone on sight. But the commanders have esential tags. Oh yes, they were so freaking stupid, they put essential tags that you were told to kill.
Bearing in mind that FO3 is 99% free and FONV is 100% free, and they use the very same system, designed for openworld gaming.
What the bloody hell were bethesda thinking! Have all the sensible people left or been sacked?! Did they all go to Obsideon and work on FONV leaving only the idiots behind?!

You do not make a openworld game, a concept that is, the player decides what to do and can do whatever they want. And then force linear quests on people and make npcs unkillable!

Do they think we will kill the first named npc we see? And so what if you did. If you want to kill named npcs and fail any guests you want! You would learn over time not to kill some people.
Do they not know about subtitutes? There would be successors in the story anyway!

Bethesda, if you try to kill a npc or whole group you hate, you are doing it BECAUSE YOU WANT THEM DEAD!
You do not want the quests they give, you do not want to talk to them, you don't care if you fail quests, you hate them and want to kill them!
They got that concept in FO3 apart from the soppy main quest. They get stupider since then? Forget about and fail to understand the very system they made?

No one needs essiential tags because no npc is freaking essential most of the time!
They stuck essential tags on b*8tards like Maven Black-Brier and the entire thieves guild. But your companions die.
Now companions who don't die, that is how it should be.
But no, most of them are idiots who use the wrong weapons for things, run straight into your attacks and don't wear or use the stuff you give them. And they die.
I have seen hirelings on Dungeons And Dragons Online who are smarter than followers on skyrim. And they can be really stupid and annoying.
Some followers act like they have been getting hints on how to get your leader or themselves killed from DnDO hirelings.

What the hell is wrong with the not letting you kill all the factions. You can destroy one faction, the Dark Brotherhood, a group who are one of the only groups properly made.

The thieves guild. Oh yes.
Grudgingly doing the barest possible minimum for the trophies.
I never hated doing something for trophies as much as this. Ever. The Caesers Legion trophies on FONV were easier than this.

They are very, very obbsessed by forcing you do join the thieves guild.
To the point that they force you to join in the main quest. They don't show the 3 other none TG options to find Esburn.
Even when you go to Rexel the barowner, it still says talk to bloody Brynjolf.
If you did not have the guidebook, see the wiki or know the truth, your character, however virtuous and good would be forced to join the TG.
That is not fair! The game is rigged!
Brynjolf ambushes you the moment you enter rifton. Maul ambushes you. You find a unusual jewel, instead of leading to the College Of Winterhold, you get forced to the TG.

And the TG itself.
It is sentimental, stupid and one of the nastiest, most romantisized thing I have ever seen in any game ever. And that is counting Caesers Legion. You can kill them all at least.
Someone has a very deluded and romantisized view on thieving scumbags who ruin lives and businesses.
They must think thieves are all charming, oirish, pretty, nice, friendly, people who come up to you to say how happy they are you are in their guild.
Yes that's right thieves are soo nice and friendly, and they frown on killing, yes, thats right.
Criminals and thugs who dont like killing, don't take the f**king piss.

Brynjolf and the writing acts like his band of scumbags and thugs as a lovely nice group. They're not. they're scum who should die painfully and violently.
If you put that pathetic writing on a genuinely nice group, like a farmer saying, please save my family and farm, or a jeweler saying, please help, my workshop is full of skeevers and a ghost is haunting my storehouse, please save my business, it would still be sickening, but more warrented.

The entire thing is sickeningly sentimental.
It is scumbags presented in a sickeningly sentimental way, then they go and ask you to menace the good people in rifton.
The vilest, nastiest, crimes presented in a sick making, sentimental way.
Brynjolf is pathetic and vile. The people in the group are pushier than every other npc in the game.
You enter the base and they jostle you and ask to talk to you. They greet you like they love you or something.

All the other groups, the npcs do their thing, you do yours, if they are meant to approach you they will. You want to talk to them, you do it yourself.
Astrid in the DB says introduce yourself to the rest of the family. She does'nt force it and the assasins don't approach you.
If you don't want to, you just have to talk to Nazir.
Some npcs ar'nt friendly when you join, fair enough. They won't all like you. They like you over time, if they're meant to, logical.

Did the makers mommy/daddy know a boss and get his ickle darlings very deluded and romantisized idea of thieves forced into far too much of the game?
Definately looks like it.
Or bethesda went completely f**king stupid.

Thieves are not fantasy, at all. Everyone, however rich or lucky will have come close to or have had something stolen from them.
Bards, assasins, werewolves etc, they are fun.
There is absolutely nothing fun or fantasy about thieving scumbags.

There are twice as many pissant, stupid quests for the TG trophies as the other factions.

In the Riftwar, Serpentwar series of books by Raymond Fiest, there is a thieves guild. They feature a lot.
But they are not sugercoated or sentimental, at all. They are thugs, thieves, criminals, prosttutes, killers, the nastiest people around. They just happen to think a country that has the rightful leaders on the throne and is'nt overun by invaders is better for them.

So, bethesda did all this work on the TG. So many bloody quests for trophies when every single other faction has just the basics.

Sithis worshipping assasins were'nt more interesting?! Werewolf warriors guild?! Did'nt occur to them to put more work into a GOOD or interesting faction?!

The female armour. And armour in general.

The female heavy and some light armour is absolutey pathetic.
It had boob plates, not briastplates. Big, ugly briast cones.

So far the only decent or good heavy armour is dwemer and steel. That has flat briastplates.
Not going to be wearing anything with briastcone, eugh.
The light armour is mostly flat. Apart from the useless elven stuff.
I cannot look at the ebony armour it's just too embaressing.
The glass armour is just plain ugly.
So every game recently I have played, has proper, flat armour.
The armour in FO3 and FONV is all flat. You can't even tell what a persons gender is in power armour.
The person who designed the female armours with boob plates is a freaking cretinous moron and deserves sacking.
What the hell were they thinking?! In a game that is realistic looking all over. Functional places, houses, etc.
They put that joke of armour?!

In fact, asian mmos aside, and the stuff it that is'nt that bad anyway, all the female armour in games is flat chested, and practical.

You would die within 5 minutes of meeting your first, weakest enemy, wearing boob plate armour.
Your briasts would be ripped apart if you so much as moved in it.
There is stuff in asian mmos that is far more practical than that crap!

And don't give me, it's a game, bulls**t! Armour in games should look practical. It does in every game I own and play.

The Main Quest

The main quest is seriously lame.
You never think the dragons are menacing, the world does not feel in danger.
You meet the greybeards, meet the idiotic blades, do some tedious espionage bit, then fighting.
That's it.
Alduin is not a lot harder to fight than a basic dragon. There are blood dragons stronger than him.


So that is my thoughts. What do you think?

tl; dr. I don't have any bones to pick with any TES game, they all are perfect for what I want to do with a game.

I second this

This.

It's a pretty solid Action RPG.

Skyrim is good for me. Not too many Cons for me.

BTW, Fight Alduin at Level 81 then say he is weaker than Bloods!

I actually read it. Between the fact that you misspelled so many things wrong and the fact that you think the Thieves Guild ISN'T a bad faction is kind of weird. Have you ever PLAYED the Thieves Guild to its entirety? It is NOT a romanticized, dashing rogue type story. It's the story of a business that's gone bad because their goddess has forsaken them.

It's what a Thief Business story should be. Action, betrayal, and twists. As for the Thieves Guild not killing anybody, the Thieves Guild isn't a bunch of criminals in one place. It's a business built on stealing the possessions of others through contracts. They don't steal other people's stuff because they want to. They steal it because it's business and they get paid to do so. The Thieves Guild pays off many people and is a lot like the Al Capone gang with a lot less killing.

As for Alduin: Alright, this is what you do. Go to your menus, then settings. Then set your difficulty above "Total Noob". Alduin isn't supposed to be the hardest boss in the world but he's definitely stronger than your average Blood Dragon. In fact, at level 40, he's about as strong as a Level 65 Ancient Dragon in my opinion.

And really? You did the Thieves Guild quest for trophies? That's kind of sad that an Action Roleplaying Game which is supposed to be tailored to "Play how you want to play" has devolved into a quest for achievements. Yeah, I get that some people want to finish everything with one character and I'm fine with that. At least have a motivation that's legitimate like wanting to see the entire game without having to play through the tutorial again or the bragging rights to say that you finished all the guilds with one character.

Essential Tags: Yeah, I agree but it isn't Fallout. In Fallout New Vegas, the Main Quest revolved around a set group of characters and other than the Main Quest, there isn't much else important than side quests.

In Skyrim, there's Guild Quests, Side Quests, and minor Quest Lines to think about. Say you kill Maven when you're doing the Thieves Guild...you basically screwed yourself over in the Main Quest "Season Unending" if you favored the Imperials. Many characters are linked to the Main Quest and Guild Quests so you can't kill anybody on a whim because you're unknowingly ending the Main Quest or a Guild.

Yeah, you can kill Astrid. But at least you know what you're doing. Your brain can say, "Alright, if I kill this Dark Brotherhood member...I think the Dark Brotherhood quests can't be played." But how would you know on your first run that Maven is destined to become Jarl or that she's tied so heavily into the Thieves Guild?

I am doing the trophies. Not done. And yes, sometimes you do things in games just to get the trophies for the platinum.

I never said the TG were not bad.
I said they were the vilest scum possible wrapped up in sickeningly sentimental writing.
The writing is so saccharine it makes your teeth hurt.
But they have you doing the vilest things about.
The vileness is not nessesery, at all.
It is not some worth drama, no one wants to know about just how vile thieves are, everyone knows.
It's a game. It should be functional evil, if not fun.

They could and should have made a TG with fuctional evil. Not fun evil, but functional evil.
A choice between robbing rich people only and being a hateful scumbag who hurts good people and demands protection money. If you were doing the trophies, you could choose to be a robin hood who keeps the loot and just robs rich people, or a foul scumbag. Your choice entirely.
It would not be a good group, would have been made clear in in the attitudes and writing, they were bad people who knew it. They were honest about their evilness.
No sacharine bull, no sickeningly sentimental writing. Just straightforward, these are bad people, bad, bad people who know it and admit it.
It would'nt need to be some tedious worthy drama level of vile.

The Dark Brotherhood, are honest. They are a family to each other, but they kill for money. They don't pretend they're good, they don't sugercoat anything.
The Companions sugercoat nothing. If you don't want to have to punch people, don't go to Farkas for jobs. It is very clear.


The tg is dressed up like they are so precious, and so lovely in the writing and dialogue and attitude.
They act and talk like they are so important. Thier business is on par with the the best in the land when it's just base thuggery and a bunch of scumbags with a very tenuous link to each other that can barely be called a group, let alone a organisation.
They act like their nasty little rathole base is a palace, their members are worthy and good and what they do is so special.
Being a thieving scumbag is a good lifestyle choice according to the writing. Not something you do if you have no other choice.
It is forced on you constantly LIKE THESE PEOPLE! LIKE THEM!!!!! JOIN THEM! JOIN THEM! LOOK, A CHARMING OIRISH MAN WHO WON'T GO AWAY AND YOU CAN'T KILL! LOTS OF PRETTY CHARACTERS! MORE PRETTY CHARACTERS PERCHANTAGE WISE IN ONE ROOM THAN IN THE ENTIRE GROUPS ELSEWERE! LOOK OIRISH ACCENTS, YOU LOVE OIRISH ACCENTS! LOVE THEM!
If you were'nt looking at the TG when they said their lines, you would think they were talking about a pretty family run bee farm full of flowers, were bunnies skip around the fields and everyone is a lovely nice person.
The sickening and sentimental writing stands out like a sore thumb.

It is unessesery, none game friendly vileness and scum wrapped in the most sickeningly sickly, vomitious writing ever.

Everywhere else in the game, it and the npcs are honest. Assasins make no excuses for thier craft. They embrace it it with enthusiasm.
The Companions are a slightly mercenery but honourable group of fighters. Bandits don't try to justify their attacks. Kematu is a scary, ruthless man. But he is not on the side of bad.
Not everyone is likes you or is meant to.
The characters and groups speak for themselves.


There is a diference between fun evil and depressing evil.
Obviously, in a game like skyrim, it should be fun evil. It is a relatively shallow game in comparision to the Bioshock series, for example.
In some games it is depressing evil, like the Bioshock series. In that being evil is the worst thing you could possibley do. That is fine and how it is meant to be.
Fun evil is blowing up megaton on FO3 and assasinating people as a werewolf in Skyrim.
Depressingng evil is killing Grace Poole and Little Sisters for ADAM in Bioshock 2.

There are quests with zero relavence to the tg tied into the damn tg for no reason other than to force you into it.

Now going to a fixer like Devlin Malory to set up your new base in the DB quests, ok. Logical.

Not saying the seedy side would'nt be there.
But don't act like they're so charming and lovely and force them on people when they're just scum.

Have a thieves guild if you must, but make it purely and completely optional, failable, and functional and game friendly evil.
Skyrim is not Bioshock series. It's a shallow game, and only should have fun or functional evil.


It's blatantly obvious from the moment you walk into rifton that Maven Black-Brier is over her head in tg garbage.
Blatantly obvious the moment you walk in that the tg and the Black-Briers are the cause of riftons problems.
The only way it could be more blatantly obvious would be if there were signs all over rifton and the rest of the world saying 'Maven Black-Brier is involved with the thieves guild! The thieves guild are evil and are ruining rifton! Maven Black-Brier is evil scum! The Thieves Guild are evil scum!'
It's spelled out in the most obvious way, to fix rifton you kill them all and destroy them.
Mjoll has obvious markers to start a clean up rifton quest.
But it is'nt there.
I think they removed it to force people to do the tg quests.
It could not be more clearer, if a person hates the tg, hates Maven, they're connected, then yes, killing her might or will fail the quests.
If you did kill her, you would'nt give a damn about the failed quests anyway. You were'nt going to do them.
The barowners not going anywere, you can still find Esburn.
It would affect absolutely nothing!

Tying a bunch of vile scumbags to places they have zero relevence to, is beyond ridiculous.
What the hell does a unusual gem being apraised have to do with joining the TG?! Absolutely f**king nothing, that's what.

You really need to play some other game, I think....

[And I realized, some while after posting this, that I should have posted WHY I think this. WHY is because anyone who spends that much time posting TWO horrifically long diatribes against portions of a game s/he gave "9/10" early in the first rant.... just isn't happy in this game/game system, and likely should quit wasting time, and agonizing over the things s/he hates.... Life's too short. Play something you love without reservation and ranting.]

THis is Tes, the vileness is in par with things such as "Warhamer:40k"!

^this.

I played FO:vegas, didn't like it at all. Not because it's a bad game, it's a really great game. But not for me. Just as I think Skyrim is a great game, just not for you.

Each to their own.

I'm honestly not reading your second post either.

Aside from simply being too long, it really just looks like a sloppily-written rant (about what, I'm not quite sure).

Wow,way to go you started off strong. Seemed like you had a structured argument/debate... Then you just stooped man, I'm sure you finished typing that drivel and sat back quite proud of your handiwork, but in truth it just makes you seem like a [censored]. You don't like the thieves guild, noted. So stop enraging yourself by dwelling on it. Get it done, get your trophy, move on.