Gonna try to make this point without making it a spoilerfest...Here we go.

I just recently completed the Imperial Questline for the civil war, and there's something I've noticed that's severely lacking in most of the game's major quests. One of the greatest things about Triumph is overcoming adversity and failure. However this is something Skyrim doesn't seem to do well.

For instance (Civil War Spoilers)


...and it's rediculous.

For those that havn't completed it, let me sum it up. The questline shoves the whole "You're a hero" concept down your throat. You never really experience a sense of loss and defeat. You just show up and stuff suddenly becomes great.

This is only really remedied in situations such as...

Thieves Guild Spoiler:

It's one of the few times where you really feel defeated. That makes the end victory so much more glorious when you finally get revenge and overcome your failures.

I just feel like Bethesda made you feel too powerful, way too early on. Is anybody in the same boat as me? I mean hell, when you're on a cart in the beginning, that's literally the only time you ever feel really helpless.

And failures don't necessarily have to be big events. They can be things that you know your character couldn't do alone. In skyrim, you pretty much Where as in Morrowind, you (Morrowind Spoiler):
Does anybody agree, or am I just a monkey protesting outside a banana factory?

Your in the Skyrim forums. This is the banana factory. I have to admit you do have a point though, dragonborn is OP. With so many options of what to do you can do things pretty fast. However on my character it took me a year ingame time to win the civil war. Then again I spent a lot of time not fighting the actual battles but roleplay wise it spread the war out over a timeperiod.

Generally Skyrim is very linear. I think in branching out to a wider audience they didn't want to scare people away by having more than two options or having a final boss who is complicated.


Adding to that point it's a shame that you are often thrust into the mantle of heroine every second. I would like to be a citizen a little more.

Was there really a reason to quote his entire post...?

I certainly agree with you.

I think so. The characters I've most enjoyed playing have been the ones I made seriously weak, in one way or another: you feel a bit less central in the CW battles, for example, when all you've done is heal the soldiers on your side while they save you from the enemy. But most of the stories do impose greatness on you pretty quickly.

First off, I love your siggy. I reminds me of some issues with the game.

All major questlines in Skyrim suffer from either poor writing, bad pacing, bland quests or all the mentioned. I do enjoy them, but damn!

Also, the problem with Alduin, is that he is a villain you don't learn to hate. You never know his motivations save for "I WILL DESTROY YOU!", and he will never, EVER be able to outmatch all powerful Dovahkiin. I did think that Alduin could become a good villain and a reason for the province to join under one banner.

Thats by far my biggest gripe with Skyrim, especially the civil war quest line is a joke and makes you feel like a god.

Actually a quote by Sotha Sil. But now that you mention it, maybe he had a good perception of what was to come before any of us did

I have the Warzones mod installed , believe me , it adds this concept totally.

For example:
I had many cases in which there was a huge skirmish of forces , I was on the Imperial side , and poof.
Suddenly , I see that an army of Stormcloaks is running at me !
Now that's amazing.


Btw , consoles you're F**ed up again , as always.
( I'm so in love with PC )

I think the DB does triumph well

Eh, but it's not really a "Defeat".

First off, hilarious. Secondly, yes. I agree with ye

dont forget about the dark brotherhood questline, that one has numerous major defeats in it

But you don't really "Lose" anything...you're not really "Defeated"...


While in Thieves Guild...


That, to me, feels like a failure. Not the DB's "Momentary disruption."

But that is kinda what happens

Momentary disruption???


And I will request that this be moved to the proper forum.

You know, I forgot about that...I suppose you're right, that is a defeat.



We're using spoiler tags for a reason.

you are not alone

I felt defeated throughout some of the college of winterhold quests.

It would help if he had some kind of understandable reason for wanting you dead and the set-up with the 'year to prepare pointless poison I twitch shot you with' wasn't so ridiculous though.

That enttire questline left me feeling thoroughly defeated.

oh yes i am definitely planning on a pure healer playthrough.


gotta fight till i get atleast lydia though

Good point. And it reduces any sense of urgency felt towards killing him. You can wander aimlessly for in-game years and Skyrim will be no better or worse if Alduin's around or not. If he did things that affected your character personally it would be so much better. For example, say you buy Breezehome and spend the money to get all the upgrades; then along comes Alduin and he blows the place up along with Lydia. That would stick in your craw. And then if you don't get after him, he does similar things in other cities; destroying the blacksmith in Solitude, the Alchemist in Windhelm, another one of your houses, etc.

It's the old gripe about the world being unaffected by anything that happens within it.

But I did feel a sense of loss during the DB quest line: the death of Astrid and killing the commanders son. Both were sad moments.

Both the Thieves and DB lines are my favorite. At least in those two there's some drama. The other (of the main ones) are blah... BUT some of the side quests are amazing. And quests that you can download from the exchange (mods). A few of the player mods are amazing.

OP, you're exactly right.

It makes sense if you look at the two target audiences, i.e., PC and PS3/Xbox.

The more important market is the PS3/Xbox ... I play on the XBox myself.

The perceived, whether correctly or not, audience in this market are mainly folks who want to run through everything and obtain all the the so-called achievements as quickly as possible ... and without perhaps noticing certain areas that might seem a bit "weak" to others ... then scurry off to the next game and rinse/repeat.

And Skyrim is designed to let them do that.

The possibly more "hardcoe" RPG player PC crowd might be looking for something a bit "meatier", so they're given a CK which modders can use to make up for some of the "weaker" areas of the game ... which to some extent keeps them off Beth's back.

And the one thing Beth does do well in its games is the "open world", which keeps those of us who may be interested in more of an action/adventure/hiking simulator game feeling we received our money's worth because the game did deliver a few hundred hours worth of entertainment in a very beautiful world.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

If you're in the "looking for a bit of light adventure, a few surprises, a bit of action and a nice environment" group, as I for the most part am, you just have to keep your expectations reasonable and accept the game for what it is and ... as I've done in the last couple of hundred hours ... just wander around and avoid the quests/situations that might be "aggravating" due to illogic, poor writing,bad quest design, etc.

But to be fair, all of these are in the eye of the beholder and, as you may have noticed, some folks think the logic, writing, design, etc. is just fine throughout the game ... and they have every right to their opinion.