It feels like 2/3 of the weapons available are SMG's and they seem better than all other weapons.

I'm not one of those armchair mercenaries who can quote obscure gun facts... but I have played enough shooters to realize that pistols, rifles, machine guns and shotguns should have some pros besides the cons.

Most of these weapons have satisfying recoil, accuracy issues, reload or rate of fire...

But SMG's feel accurate at a fairly long range, have zero recoil and spit out bullets like a firehose. Sure, you can run out of ammo quickly... but by then your opponent(s) dead.

Any chance they can put some good recoil on the various SMG's?

Also Pistols and Rifles could use some love... in most games you save them for headshots but it is hard to be accurate in a parkour themed game.

I'll disagree. It takes at least half a clip for me to kill someone, maybe a quarter if I get lucky with headshots. Most of the time it takes a whole clip, or enough where I might as well reload because the recoil just sprays bullets everywhere. Either you're talking about the Kross SMG which is super accurate but shoots BBs, or you're talking about the Buld...some SMG starting with the letter B that shoots super BB's with a bigger spread. Put two equally skilled combatants, one with an SMG and another with a rifle, and the rifle will win. It's statistically superior, but there's enough leeway for a skilled player to have their way with whichever gun.

It's more like 1/3 of the weapons are SMG's and it only makes sense that it's that way. What if 2/3's of the guns were heavy weapons? That'd neglect the two other classes from being able to choose those guns, but the heavies can choose the SMG's anyway. In support for Brink's lack of damage for their weapons however, it's to encourage team play and discourage soloing. It's harder for one person to take on three people that take multiple shots to kill because it gives a time window for the other players to retaliate before they are dead, but if headshots were one hit kill regardless, team play would go out the door and one person could win the match by themselves if they were l33t enough.

The only really accurate SMGs are the Kross and Bulpdaun. The Kross also seems to have the highest fire rate, but it has severely limited effectiveness at long range and takes a lot of shots to bring someone down. The Bulpdaun has smaller clips but packs more punch per shot, it's more like a steady assault rifle.

Assault Rifles in this game dish out a noticably higher amount of damage per shot than SMGs. Generally an SMG will take 20-30 bullets to kill someone, an AR can get them in 10-15 and you can hit targets from nearly twice the range an SMG can. The downside is that ARs have pretty heavy recoil - you need to fire them semi-auto or in short bursts rather than spraying. Both weapon types have their ups and downs, and I think they're balanced just fine at the moment.

Machineguns are fun and great for suppressive fire, but severely low accuracy, slow reloading, and requiring a heavy body type limits them a bit too much I think. Sniper rifles are absolute crap in this game unless you're hacking, or your'e an aimbotting AI that always gets headshots.

Shotguns, similarly, have a lot of issues in brink, just like they do in every other FPS/TPS I've ever played. The problem here is that they take 2 or 3 shots (2 for the mossington, 3 for the hjammerdeim) to kill a target, and the low rate of fire means that anyone with an smg or assault rifle and a half decent aim can kill you before you can put out enough shells to kill them.

Only while running since you can't fire while sprinting or vaulting over objects. It's your fault if you don't aim and shoot accurately.

Also, smgs never have the accuracy or power of other weapons. They are true run-and-gun at medium range at best.

all is full of balance.

Yes you can...

There's an accuracy penalty when you do, but yes you can.

I think he meant more of the problem of shooting other people while they are vaulting and sliding parkour style, it's like trying to shoot a monkey in the jungle, they have too many outs.
My biggest problem is the lack of knockdown power in an environment with so much cover, too many people can escape to cover before you can put out enough damage to kill them, especially the heavies.

If Heavies are outrunning you, then you're doing something very wrong...

It takes 10 seconds for health to regenerate. Cover won't last that long against a Light enemy, or even a decent Medium. If you're good as a Heavy, you'll have a decent chance of catching them out too, if you're willing to go wide and take some long-range shots, or herd the enemy into some of your friends.

Chase well, and skilled Medics will be the only ones who can regenerate mid-firefight - and even that won't always save them - self-buffing has a long cooldown.

I meant my parkour comment as shooting moving targets, not shooting while moving. It is hard to connect a head shot on somebody who is jumping over obstacles and who has a fairly tiny head (not a complaint, I actually like the character design in the game).

One of the SMG's I find very overpowered is the KROSS

(copied from a Brink Wiki, where I went to look up the name of the SMG)
Damage 50%
Range 41%
Rate of Fire 87%
Accuracy 74%
Stability 84%
Reload Speed 76%
Equip Speed 75%

Each individual shot does practically no damage but even a guy like me who usually svcks at shooters can shred A.I. and human opponents, one or two at a time, before they knock off even a quarter of my health. The rate of fire is just ridiculous, close to instant death. I used to carry a shotgun since you can kill in one or two shots but this thing kills faster than it takes to get off a second shotgun blast. I have even beat guys using machine gun nests at a long range... because even though they are only getting hit by 10% of my shots... those are like 1000 shots per second, lol. The Tampa is another one with a similar feel to it.

Maybe my problem is that I expect more of the SMG's to be like the MAC10 in Killing Floor which shoots like crazy but is impossible to hold still. Very satisfying in it's pros and cons...

Thats exactly your problem, Killing Floor Acts as if your holding the Mac10 with 1 hand. FYI 2 hands helps.

Smgs are actualy plenty accurate in real life aswell, as for the recoil, A Assault rifle kicks alot more then a smg which makes sense seeing as smg generally uses smaller caliber bullets.
I've seen pretty much all weapons used to great effect with the exception of Automatic grenade launcher and minigun.

I won't comment to much on the Kross in particular as I've avoided that particular smg so far, but then again I play against people using it, and I've never felt at a disadvantage versus them.

Id much rather see a nerf to barnets ability to Kill in one shoot with body shoots (when buffed), mainly because devs promised it wouldnt be possible hrhr

SMGs are good close up, just like intended. Personally I use Gerund AR mostly and I can outshoot SMGs if there's a bit more range.

So yeah, working as intended.

I know what you mean, I've been using the light body type and the Carb 9 has just torn apart enemy's. I then went on to switch to an assault rifle and felt that the surprising lack of ammo, meant that I barely had enough for half a match.

AR's are just terrible in this game compared to SMG's.
Most of the maps are close quarters and so the SMG's rule the battlefield.
The AR's should be given an accuracy, spread and recoil buff imo.

I find myself using my SMG to take out guys with headshots, then when my clip runs out,I move in and switch to my AR with drum mag.
Then it's spray n pray with it like an LMG as there's no point trying to aim with it properly.
If you did try and aim, you'd be taken down by an enemy with an SMG

AR's work best on soldiers, who dont have to worry about the limited ammunition count. If you control your fire (fire single shot or burst instead of mashing the trigger), you can hit targets at twice the range an SMG can and you'll do a lot more damage at that range. You can still spray shots if someone gets in close, which makes the assault rifles more versatile than light rifles for covering multiple distances.

I'm now level 17, using Gerund/SMG (has varied, first CARB, then Bulpdaun, now Galactic which is my favourite out of those) the whole time. I always prefer my Gerund except if I go into very enclosed areas.

At least the Gerund is perfectly fine in comparison to SMGs in this game, can't really speak for others. I'd want to like the Rhett, but I can't really work with that :/

This. SMGs are fantastic at close to medium range, but as things get farther away AR start to shine. If you're right on top of someone, you'll find that pistols are more effective than ARs or SMGs. It all has to do with the range.

I agree with the title, but i love the galactic with attachments, it kicks ass!

Here's the thing. Though I haven't read everything, from what I can tell it has yet to be mentioned that smg only truly melt face at point blank. Their extremely high fire rate only matters when all the bullets land. The spread gets terribly bad at range, at which point a AR rifle will smoke a smg because they hit harder, and more frequently. Not to say a smg won't be lethal at range, but their dps drops hard the farther you are, where an AR doesn't.

The thing tripping people up and what makes them feel op, is that its extremely easy to get into an optimum range, and with short bursts they can still work at range. I don't feel they're too stable personally. They have to be, or they would never land hits and could deal the damage they would need. AR don't have the problem, since they can be lethal hit for hit, the smg just isn't...

I can only think of a couple of Brink maps where the enemy would be approaching the limits of my aimed (not hipshot) SMGs. They are lethal when fitted out correctly.

I lol'd when i read this. BTW the Barnett needs buffs to OHI anything but a light, and these are hard to come by alot of times. i really dont see the problem with the Barnett. Ya it can one hit incap, but with its extremely sluggish fire rate, low magazine size, and ungodly reload time it is perfectly balanced. As long as your not lone-wolfing it all the time, your teammates will take him out before he can get off more than one shot. If i catch you trying to ninja your way around the map as a light, or staying in one place for too long as a medium, you deserve to die.

Yeah, the smg can kill at range, but the AR's are better at it. At med range, the AR can do just as wetland longer it will waste the smg. Close quarters though, the smg will melt face compared to an AR. Also, ad I said, the nature of the maps are very close quarters... So yeah.

The SMG's need to not have the ability for drum mags. They are fine for CQC but the fact they have 60 to 90 rounds in a magazine/drum is off...


take that away and they are fine.

Bear in mind, the altered mags don't actually improve how much ammo you have, so when you get up to 90 bullets for your Galactic (the only one which actually gets that large a clip), you only have one reload.

Just yesterday I was using the Carb-9 and I must have killed atleast 8 people with one drum magazine, and by kill 8 people I mean i had enough ammo to make sure a medic couldn't pull a Jesus and resurrect them. It was hella accurate to, the sniper rifles seem to be underpowered taking close to 4 shots with a standard weapon buff, but if you get a double weapon buff you only need like one shot center mass. The assault rifles which should be effective at close to medium range have way to much recoil to be effective at any range and lack damage. I find myself able to kill enemys with assault rifles from far away. The only smg that I find balanced is the Halo 3 O.D.S.T.s Auto-mag errr. . . i mean the Tampa (I have it equipped with an ACOG scope, silencer, and High capacity mag) Its spread is wild going fully auto at medium range and you need to shoot 1-3 bullets at a time to kill someone at medium range while you can spray people with it at close range and it will be effective just like an SMG should be.

your first mistake is thinking AR are Medium to close range. Theyr Medium to long range weapons.

By that I don't mean they can't be used in short, but by that I mean Its the range they got the advantage over Smgs and shotguns.

Yes a Smg close up will rip enemies apart, and rightly so.

I've lately tested AR, while theyr not my favorite saying theyr ineffective or worse then smg is just silly, If you expect to have the upperhand in close combat then obviously you'll be disapointed.

As for sniper needs 4 shots with standard buff, thats not even remotly true. Unless the enemy your shooting is fully buffed with Kevlar, several extra pips, 2 body shoots will down even heavies.

Unless of course your using the Semi Automatic rifle, which will take about 3-4 shots, which is completly fair considering its speed.

I think the weapon balance is nearly perfect.

There are two ARs i really enjoy using and that tear up the enemy better than an SMG, and one Heavy weapon I wouldnt trade for any other Heavy weapon.

Most of the reasons sited for changing SMGs somehow don't take into account the Lightweight class's need for a weapon that is effective very quickly, I realize Mediums might be
using SMGs too but Mediums only have 20 extra health than a Light class, so it really is very balanced in my estimation.

Excellent job with the weapons.