Somebody can explain what is Laa? : V

» Fri May 25, 2012 9:49 pm

Could explain how this is good for the game?

» Fri May 25, 2012 6:43 pm

By default a 32bit application under windows is limited to using no more then 2GB of memory for its purposes. LAA (Large Address Allocation) allows it to use more, meaning more of the game's content can be in memory rather then have to read it off of the disk. For those with plenty of free memory hanging around otherwise doing nothing this is a great way to smooth out the experience and push the game to keep more of itself available at any given time. Oh right, and this smoother experience stems from reading from ram is significantly faster then reading from the disk, we're talking multiple times faster. Fastest SSD on the consumer market ~500MB/sec, generic DDR3 memory speed/timing: ~9000MB/sec.

» Fri May 25, 2012 12:13 pm

I'll give you the headlines...someone else can give the details (or you can 'search' to find your details)

Large address aware - moves the game beyond the 2gb system ram limitations inherent to 32-bit operating systems. Skyrim, for a bunch of reasons, is geared for the 32-bit console crowd. For many with either a) more than 2gb of ram; or

64-bit systems, this game is underutilizing the resources available. Like letting my grandmother drive my Porsche. LAA removes my grandmother, and inserts my mother - still not ideal, but a little more enthusiastic.

Many generalities here, but this is the headline.

» Fri May 25, 2012 8:00 pm

By default a 32bit application under windows is limited to using no more then 2GB of memory for its purposes. LAA (Large Address Allocation) allows it to use more, meaning more of the game's content can be in memory rather then have to read it off of the disk. For those with plenty of free memory hanging around otherwise doing nothing this is a great way to smooth out the experience and push the game to keep more of itself available at any given time.

Ty for the answer, but there is a mod that allows you to do that, and i dont see any diferences, and the principal problem of this game is not cpu limit?

» Fri May 25, 2012 1:11 pm

I'll give you the headlines...someone else can give the details (or you can 'search' to find your details)

Large address aware - moves the game beyond the 2gb system ram limitations inherent to 32-bit operating systems. Skyrim, for a bunch of reasons, is geared for the 32-bit console crowd. For many with either a) more than 2gb of ram; or

64-bit systems, this game is underutilizing the resources available. Like letting my grandmother drive my Porsche. LAA removes my grandmother, and inserts my mother - still not ideal, but a little more enthusiastic.

Many generalities here, but this is the headline.

Lol, best example ever , but there is a mod that allow you to do that and i dont see any diferences.

» Fri May 25, 2012 3:47 pm

@ mandrake - the game, as is, out of the box, generally runs ok without the LAA. That's because all the potentially hi-res stuff they COULD have put into the game has been toned down (over-generalizing here), so it works. But modded Skyrim, with bells, whistles, and better textures will bring out-of-box game to its knees. Hence, the need for a companion program to run the improvements.

So, unmodded, you likely won't see a difference with LAA. However, let's say you are not running your computer optimally....lot's of other programs, windows not optimalized for gaming, rendering videos in Sony Vegas while playing, or you have just 4gb of sub-par crappy RAM, you MAY find that without the LAA add-on, your out-of-box game struggles. With LAA, you may not see improvement if you were running OK without, but you'll have more headroom during peak times just in case.

» Sat May 26, 2012 12:15 am

Ty for the answer, but there is a mod that allows you to do that, and i dont see any diferences, and the principal problem of this game is not cpu limit?

You're right its not in itself a quick fix but what it does do is let you push to keep more of the game in memory instead of the disk. Memory seems to be the chief choke point for this game (both vram and system ram) so the more of it you provide to the game the more it can keep around instead of having to pick & choose constantly what it can have available vs what it has to re-read off the disk. The best example of LAA's benefits come from how you can then opt to go for things like increasing the pre-loaded cell counts and other things so the game is keeping more of the game world on hand for when you happen to go looking in that direction.

What I myself am fuzzy on is whether vram and system ram both count towards the same 2GB limit under non-LAA flagged executables, if that's the case then yah the more vram your card has the less the game will use your system ram and same in the reverse.

Bottom line though is it gives the game far more breathing room to operate as it seems to be clearly intended: as much of itself in quick-access memory instead of wasting a lot of time swapping out content currently there for stuff you're encountering who's data is still on the disk rather. The act of switching stuff from disk to memory and the reverse is detrimental to performance. Its fixing a bottleneck more then anything.

ED: ^^ The Nanny, agreed it does tend to be more for people who're adding more higher res versions of textures and whatnot but I'll say as a multi-screen gamer its been critical in providing a truly awesome gaming experience with this engine since well 3x the screen means 3x the resources which very quickly hits those limits otherwise

» Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm

@ mandrake - the game, as is, out of the box, generally runs ok without the LAA. That's because all the potentially hi-res stuff they COULD have put into the game has been toned down (over-generalizing here), so it works. But modded Skyrim, with bells, whistles, and better textures will bring out-of-box game to its knees. Hence, the need for a companion program to run the improvements.

it means that only favors to people who use mods?
I play the game without mods, and the game doesn't run smooth at all, well only in cities.
For being more specific, this new patch is not gonna fix the performance in cities right?
Sorry for my s h i t t y english

» Fri May 25, 2012 11:26 pm

Ty for the answer, but there is a mod that allows you to do that, and i dont see any diferences, and the principal problem of this game is not cpu limit?

32 bit exe can only address 2 Gig ram. The second it(EXE) asks for more you will crash.

By adding LAA to a 32 bit EXE the program is now allowed to access 4 Gig Ram. IT takes a lot longer to Crash.

UN moded Oblivion was safe and never asked for more then 2 Gig.

With my modded Oblivion ...FCOM +++200 mods I would get up to 3.8 Gig of ram used. I have had it Crash up in that range.

When we have enough mods for Skyrim We will see it get to these limits.

The only way around any of this is to have a TRUE x64 EXE then Sky IS the limit. OR about 192 GIG of Ram(win7's limit)...lol

» Sat May 26, 2012 12:15 am

Lol, best example ever , but there is a mod that allow you to do that and i dont see any diferences.

Why?? because of this

"As many of you may know, the most recent Skyrim patch implemented something that did not set well with many of its fans. This being that the Large Address Aware third-party patch has been disabled, something that allowed players to use more that 2GB of RAM, thus improving performance.

But, we have now found a way to workaround this setback, giving you the opportunity to use the Large Address Aware once again. Also, this is a proceedure that is not going to force you to alter your game file's exectuable."

and

"The latest patch for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim locked the exe file down and thus made the Large Address Aware mod for the game completely DOA. Fortunately, the mod community found a workaround that comes very close to replicating the fixes the LAA did previously.

4GB Skyrim is a tool that will allow Skyrim to address the entirety of the 4GB Virtual Memory on a system instead of being locked down to the roughly 2GB it is without this patch. For many, including myself, this mod goes a long way to eliminating a huge number of crashes within the game.

So, if you have a decent rig with a good deal of memory yet experience random crashes, this 4GB Skyrim mod may be just what you're looking for. It may not fix all of your crashing issues, but personally speaking, the LAA patch and now this patch eliminated all random crashes from my game."

and maybe have further problems, like the .exe is altered and you be banned.

» Fri May 25, 2012 12:59 pm

@ Mandrake - "performance" in Skyrim is a complex thing. Will the official 1.3 patch improve your performance? I can't answer that...it did for me. Does 4GB LAA help non-modded Skyrim? It can't hurt. Your slow-downs in cities could be RAM related, but could be many many other things (including your CPU, your GPU etc).

@ Bumpinnight - the system RAM limit has nothing to do with GPU vram...therefore, the 2gb limit doesn't limit GPU ram. So...a massive GPU should fix all problems? Sadly, with Skyrim, no. This game is kindof messed up in that not all things video are tied to the gpu...much is tied to CPU (shadows for example). With some 3rd party programs (like ATI CCC or nvidia inspector), you can divert some of the in-game graphic goodies to your gpu (AA, AF etc), because it is fuzzy to what extent those out-of-box goodies are taxing non gpu components. Generally, people are finding the external programs are working those goodies more efficiently. Don't get me wrong though...a better GPU makes most things better in Skyrim, but there are some graphic things it can't fix

My GTX590 (3gb) still can't fix the shadows, for example.

» Sat May 26, 2012 12:23 am

@ Mandrake - "performance" in Skyrim is a complex thing. Will the official 1.3 patch improve your performance? I can't answer that...it did for me. Does 4GB LAA help non-modded Skyrim? It can't hurt. Your slow-downs in cities could be RAM related, but could be many many other things (including your CPU, your GPU etc).

@ Bumpinnight - the system RAM limit has nothing to do with GPU vram...therefore, the 2gb limit doesn't limit GPU ram. So...a massive GPU should fix all problems? Sadly, with Skyrim, no. This game is kindof messed up in that not all things video are tied to the gpu...much is tied to CPU (shadows for example). With some 3rd party programs (like ATI CCC or nvidia inspector), you can divert some of the in-game graphic goodies to your gpu (AA, AF etc), because it is fuzzy to what extent those out-of-box goodies are taxing non gpu components. Generally, people are finding the external programs are working those goodies more efficiently.

This is my specs:

Micro: Amd Phenom II x6 1100T 3.3 ghz (3.7 with turbo enabled)
Gpu: XFX Radeon HD 6850 1gb ddr5
Ram: Kyngston HyperX DDR 3 8 GB in 4x2 GB 1600 mhz
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bits

Is not a high end pc but is a decent machine, i play Battlefield 3 with ultra settings 45-60 fps
In Skyrim ultra i got constantly slowdowns but in cities is terrible, so i put the shadows in high and a little better ( but shadows looks like crap), anyway with this specs i cant play in cities at decent framerates, what are you specs and how many frames do you got in cicties?

» Fri May 25, 2012 11:42 am

This is my specs:

Micro: Amd Phenom II x6 1100T 3.3 ghz (3.7 with turbo enabled)
Gpu: XFX Radeon HD 6850 1gb ddr5
Ram: Kyngston HyperX DDR 3 8 GB in 4x2 GB 1600 mhz
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bits

Is not a high end pc but is a decent machine, i play Battlefield 3 with ultra settings 45-60 fps
In Skyrim ultra i got constantly slowdowns but in cities is terrible, so i put the shadows in high and a little better ( but shadows looks like crap), anyway with this specs i cant play in cities at decent framerates, what are you specs and how many frames do you got in cicties?

When I switch down to single screen I can keep the ultra going and about the worst (consistent) FPS is about 40 during the dragonreach look-across-the-city-from-the-landing view.
2600K @ 4.7Ghz
3xGTX280s
16GB of DDR3 @ 1600mhz
win7 x64 pro
1920x1080.

Meanwhile, the settings really get hairy at 5760x1080, that's where you really gotta get to know the skyrimprefs.ini, you can do a lot of good there.

» Fri May 25, 2012 11:22 pm

When I switch down to single screen I can keep the ultra going and about the worst (consistent) FPS is about 40 during the dragonreach look-across-the-city-from-the-landing view.
2600K @ 4.7Ghz
3xGTX280s
16GB of DDR3 @ 1600mhz
win7 x64 pro
1920x1080.

Meanwhile, the settings really get hairy at 5760x1080, that's where you really gotta get to know the skyrimprefs.ini, you can do a lot of good there.

Could you send me your .ini settings please?

PD: With that micro you should get 60 fps in cities, 4.7 ghz come on men the game is soo bad optimized..

» Fri May 25, 2012 5:16 pm

ok specs:
i7-2600K 3.6 oc'd to 4.7
8gb RAM oc'd ~ 40%
windows 7 64 pro
GTX 590 3gb ddr5
Crucial SSD

I run a zillion mods, although each one tested carefully one-by-one when it hits my machine, but quite stable. Everything maxed, including shadows, tweaked ini's to go beyond ultra (with shadow distances, ugrids, etc). FPS above 60 at all times, but cities like Markarth can dip that to about 45. Normally, the SSD ONLY helps me with my loading screens in games, but in a messed up way, it is helping my Skyrim performance in some ways - truly, SSDs are not supposed to help fps, and they don't in my other games (in terms of fps) - but I think because of the messed up game setup from Bethesda, it is relying on read-speeds more than it should for some things (I am not an expert in this area...so don't quote me). Cause I installed this game, same set-up, on my WD7200rpm black to be sure, and was consistently getting 5 fps LESS (???)...again, this shouldn't really be, but some other people are getting similar results.

I also run Gamebooster, and MSI Afterburner...and have tweaked windows entirely for game performance. I'll post my inis if you want but after weeks here I STILL can't find the spoiler button LOLOL so if you can tell me where it is I don't have to fill the post will a wall of text)

EDIT: here are my inis...

Spoiler

SKYRIM.INI

[General]

sLanguage=ENGLISH
bLoadLooseFiles=1
uGridsToLoad=7
uExterior Cell Buffer=64
sIntroSequence=
fMasterFilePreLoadMB=128.0000
iPreloadSizeLimit=268435456

[Display]
fShadowLODMaxStartFade=1000.0
fSpecularLODMaxStartFade=2000.0
fLightLODMaxStartFade=3500.0
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048
bAllowScreenshot=1
fSunShadowUpdateTime=0
fSunUpdateThreshold=2.0

[Audio]
fMusicDuckingSeconds=6.0
fMusicUnDuckingSeconds=8.0
fMenuModeFadeOutTime=3.0
fMenuModeFadeInTime=1.0

[Grass]
bAllowCreateGrass=1
bAllowLoadGrass=0

[GeneralWarnings]
SGeneralMasterMismatchWarning=One or more plugins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on. Errors may occur during load or game play. Check the "Warnings.txt" file for more information.

[Archive]
sResourceArchiveList=Skyrim - Misc.bsa, Skyrim - Shaders.bsa, Skyrim - Textures.bsa, Skyrim - Interface.bsa, Skyrim - Animations.bsa, Skyrim - Meshes.bsa, Skyrim - Sounds.bsa
sResourceArchiveList2=Skyrim - Voices.bsa, Skyrim - Voicesixtra.bsa

[Combat]
fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0.0
fMagnetismLookingMult=0.0

[Papyrus]
fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0
bEnableLogging=0
bEnableTrace=0
bLoadDebugInformation=0
iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=2000000000

[Actor]
fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=14000.0000

[Imagespace]
bDoRadialBlur=0

SKYRIMPREFS.INI

[General]
fBrightLightColorB=1.0000
fBrightLightColorG=1.0000
fBrightLightColorR=1.0000
iStoryManagerLoggingEvent=-1
bEnableStoryManagerLogging=0
[Imagespace]
bDoDepthOfField=1
iRadialBlurLevel=2
fdefaultfov=85
[Display]
iBlurDeferredShadowMask=4
fInteriorShadowDistance=2200.0000
fShadowDistance=4800.0000
iShadowMapResolutionSecondary=1024
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=4096
iShadowSplitCount=2
iMaxAnisotropy=0
fLeafAnimDampenDistEnd=4600.0000
fLeafAnimDampenDistStart=3600.0000
fTreesMidLODSwitchDist=32000.0000
fGamma=1.0000
fDecalLOD2=1500.0000
fDecalLOD1=1000.0000
iActorShadowCountInt=8
iActorShadowCountExt=8
fSpecularLODStartFade=2000.0000
fShadowLODStartFade=1800.0000
fLightLODStartFade=3500.0000
iTexMipMapMinimum=0
iTexMipMapSkip=0
iWaterMultiSamples=2
iMultiSample=2
iShadowMode=4
bTreesReceiveShadows=1
bDrawLandShadows=1
bFull Screen=1
iSize H=1080
iSize W=1920
fMeshLODFadePercentDefault=1.2000
fMeshLODFadeBoundDefault=256.0000
fMeshLODLevel2FadeTreeDistance=24000.0000
fMeshLODLevel1FadeTreeDistance=28000.0000
fMeshLODLevel2FadeDist=10000000.0000
fMeshLODLevel1FadeDist=10000000.0000
iScreenShotIndex=41
bShadowMaskZPrepass=0
bMainZPrepass=0
iMaxSkinDecalsPerFrame=25
iMaxDecalsPerFrame=100
bFloatPointRenderTarget=0
sD3DDevice="NVIDIA GeForce GTX 590"
bFXAAEnabled=0
iShadowMapResolution=2048
fShadowBiasScale=0.2000
iShadowMaskQuarter=3
iAdapter=0
iPresentInterval=1
iShadowFilter=3
bTransparencyMultisampling=0
bDrawShadows=1
bDynamicWindowReflections=1
bUseSunbeams=1
bShadowsOnGrass=1
bActorSelfShadowing=1
[Grass]
b30GrassVS=1
fGrassStartFadeDistance=14000.0000
fGrassMaxStartFadeDistance=28000.0000
fGrassMinStartFadeDistance=0.0000
bDrawShaderGrass=1
[MAIN]
bGamepadEnable=0
bCrosshairEnabled=1
fHUDOpacity=1.0000
bSaveOnPause=1
bSaveOnTravel=1
bSaveOnWait=1
bSaveOnRest=1
fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=150000.0000
[GamePlay]
bShowFloatingQuestMarkers=1
bShowQuestMarkers=1
iDifficulty=3
[Interface]
bDialogueSubtitles=1
bGeneralSubtitles=0
bShowCompass=1
[Controls]
fGamepadHeadingSensitivity=1.0000
fMouseHeadingSensitivity=0.0125
bAlwaysRunByDefault=1
bInvertYValues=0
bGamePadRumble=0
bMouseAcceleration=0
[Particles]
iMaxDesired=750
[SaveGame]
fAutosaveEveryXMins=15.0000
[AudioMenu]
fAudioMasterVolume=1.0000
fVal7=1.0000
uID7=0
fVal6=1.0000
uID6=0
fVal5=1.0000
uID5=0
fVal4=1.0000
uID4=0
fVal3=1.0000
uID3=94881
fVal2=0.4000
uID2=466532
fVal1=1.0000
uID1=554685
fVal0=0.8000
uID0=1007612
[Clouds]
fCloudLevel2Distance=262144.0000
fCloudLevel1Distance=32768.0000
fCloudLevel0Distance=16384.0000
fCloudNearFadeDistance=9000.0000
[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance=75000.0000
fBlockMaximumDistance=250000.0000
fBlockLevel1Distance=70000.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance=35000.0000
fSplitDistanceMult=1.5000
bShowLODInEditor=0
[NavMesh]
fObstacleAlpha=0.5000
fCoverSideHighAlpha=0.8000
fCoverSideLowAlpha=0.6500
fEdgeFullAlpha=1.0000
fEdgeHighAlpha=0.7500
fEdgeLowAlpha=0.5000
fTriangleFullAlpha=0.7000
fTriangleHighAlpha=0.3500
fTriangleLowAlpha=0.2000
fLedgeBoxHalfHeight=25.0000
fEdgeDistFromVert=10.0000
fEdgeThickness=10.0000
fPointSize=2.5000
[Trees]
bRenderSkinnedTrees=1
uiMaxSkinnedTreesToRender=24
[Decals]
uMaxDecals=1024
bDecals=1
bSkinnedDecals=1
uMaxSkinDecals=128
uMaxSkinDecalsPerActor=32
[LOD]
fLODFadeOutMultObjects=16.0000
fLODFadeOutMultItems=12.0000
fLODFadeOutMultActors=8.0000
fLODFadeOutMultSkyCell=0.0000
[Launcher]
bEnableFileSelection=1
bShowAllResolutions=1
uLastAspectRatio=3
[BlurShaderHDR]
bDoHighDynamicRange=1
[BlurShader]
bUseBlurShader=0
[Water]
iWaterReflectHeight=1024
iWaterReflectWidth=1024
bUseWaterDisplacements=1
bUseWaterRefractions=1
bUseWaterReflections=1
bUseWaterDepth=1
bUseWaterReflectionBlur=1
bReflectExplosions=1
iWaterBlurAmount=4
bAutoWaterSilhouetteReflections=0
bForceHighDetailReflections=1

screenies:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6809/thesource.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8818/coldrunoff.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/821/sunritiksolitude.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4531/mustgoon.jpg

» Fri May 25, 2012 6:15 pm

@ The Nanny also sent you a PM...lol

Remove the ***

To do a spoiler tag...

[*spoiler*] put text in here [*/spoiler*]

Spoiler

take out the *'s* there is no button

» Fri May 25, 2012 12:09 pm

lol ok thanks for spoiler tip! ini's added to previous post then

» Fri May 25, 2012 6:32 pm

Quit saying that LAA function is for Physical Ram Exclusively...

Large Address Aware allows access to the TOTAL Limits of the 32bit Addressable Memory space... Meaning if your running windows 32bit and only have 2gb of ram and happen to have PAE enabled, the game will be allowed to allocate up to 3gb of total addressable memory across the physical ram and page file. Even if skyrim only loads in 1gb of ram, the other 2gb could be loaded into the page file which mostly resides on the hardrive.

64bit machines with say 2gb of ram, and the LAA.. will allow the program access to a total of the entire 32bit limits, meaning it can consume 4gb total.... whatever the ratio works out like, say most of the ram... lets say 1.5gb ram used and a total of 2.5 page file for the game would be allowed rather than 2gb.

On some vanilla setups, Skyrim would eat a total of 1.9gb of overall total memory. Obviously that's very close to the 2gb limit resulting in either eventual crashes or occasional crashes, for me.. it always crashed, why it was trying to use so much from my testing seemed to be due to having larger amount of physical ram available.. but that's not entirely accurate... just my observation because i never had it crashed with a 2gb ram system...

either way..... IF you decided to use even a small or "few" mods that increase the amount of memory used (typically HD Texture packs)..... your chances of crashing increases substantially... or guarantees it.

MANY people with weird glitches, purple objects, missing walls/floor/etc. Just general weirdness that sometimes leads to a crash, the LAA function quite often is able to fix it.

I THINK implementing the LAA function natively without using a launcher will be the best step.. it can hopefully solve the hundreds if not thousands of users that don't even know what the 4gb launcher is and don't want to use 3rd party mods to launch the game, and have had issues frequently. I know personally numerous people that just put the game away because they didn't want to spend time fixing it. So by far.. this is probably the most important FIX to implement so they can kill the majority of the CTDs first, and work on game bugs 2nd, because no point in fixing that one npc that doesn't do what it should, if hundreds/thousands of players never make it to that npc to find out it's so horribly bugged.

» Fri May 25, 2012 5:13 pm

@ The Nanny Could you please tell me what things you modified from original .ini, sorry i dont wanna bother you..

» Fri May 25, 2012 2:59 pm

@ The Nanny Could you please tell me what things you modified from original .ini, sorry i dont wanna bother you..

oh man that would take a while - probably easier to check out these Nexus pages, cause I pretty much followed them (with a few minor differences):

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1387
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=283 (for shadows)

Realize that I'm also adding AO (highQ), AFx16, 4xMSAA (+2xSS transparency), -.250 LOD bias, and forced Vsync in my nvidia Inspector. These settings have a large impact on look and performance.

@ DHJudas - great explanation! I realized I was over-simplifying re physical ram...you are correct. Ya, I wish the LAA functioned natively, cause I think that would run even better. Right now, if I try to launch modded Skyrim without 4GB LAA, my computer just laughs at me then urinates on my leg.

» Sat May 26, 2012 2:59 am

@ The Nanny Could you please tell me what things you modified from original .ini, sorry i dont wanna bother you..

Easy to Do yourself...

Google "Notepad ++" you should really use this any way....download you will never use anything else!

Open BOTH INI files in notepad ++ up top where you see "File" , Edit, and so on ..you will see a tab for "Plugins" first choice when you click there is "Compare" Smile because you will be comparing many files from here on out.

I "Compare" every new (generated) skyrim.ini file the engine gives me (after new patch). to see what new things the engine has ...

we get new stuff all the time!!

Edit" an example this is in the 1.3 INI that was not present before...

bAlwaysSaveAllInfo=1 No clue as to use ....lol