Soul trap. Evil? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:38 pm

"Soul trap" traps souls. Go figure.

In all seriousness though, I already pointed out that once the soulgem is used, the soul is freed to the afterlife. Aside from temporarily detaining them in a spiritual prison, you're doing nothing to harm them.

Well, if you enchant them they get to stay a bit longer.

According to Daggerfall evidence, however there is no serious lore on soul gems.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:04 am

If you think its evil and are roleplaying a humanitarian, don't use it. I wouldn't consider them evil, I mean, we kill cows for their meat and hides, how is this any different?

On a side note, if a feral wolf or lowly bandit tries to kill you, I would say their soul is fair game.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:41 am

M'aiq was soul trapped once. Not very pleasant. You should think about that once in a while.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 am

If you think its evil and are roleplaying a humanitarian, don't use it. I wouldn't consider them evil, I mean, we kill cows for their meat and hides, how is this any different?

That depends, really.

Killing them isn't that bad. Sure, you might skin them alive, eviscerate them or do a really soddy kill, leading to a slow death that can take up to almost half an hour and more.

But they die in the end and the pain stops there.

Taking their soul however... imagine being killed over and over again forever and ever without any kind of escape...

You'd rather die a thousand times than have your soul taken once ^^

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:22 pm

Is it acceptable for a pure mage, who's goodhearted, to use Soul trap? It seems so useful and it's gonna save me a great deal of septims, but it just seem so evil.

I dont find it evil. guess its up to you and how you feel about it personaly.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:26 am

I dont find it evil. guess its up to you and how you feel about it personaly.

If souls are actually enchanted into an item, as suggested by Daggerfall, the soul of whatever or whoever becomes that item.

In the case of bandits, they redeem themselves as a piece of armour.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:13 am

That depends, really.

Killing them isn't that bad. Sure, you might skin them alive, eviscerate them or do a really soddy kill, leading to a slow death that can take up to almost half an hour and more.

But they die in the end and the pain stops there.

Taking their soul however... imagine being killed over and over again forever and ever without any kind of escape...

You'd rather die a thousand times than have your soul taken once ^^

]

I don't think you feel pain once your soul has been taken, I'm not sure though, If you know of any books in game that could clear this up, that would be helpful. That said, once you kill the creature, assuming he she or it doesn't feel any pain, you might as well use the soul

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:28 am

Good and Evil is purely an individuals perspective. politically right and wrong is what really matters, and in the world of Nirn, soultrapping is accepted hence its deemed as not wrong.

My Dark Mage soul traps all his assassain contracts so he can display trophies.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:17 pm

The real moral question is what items you'll enchant with their souls.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:48 pm

]

I don't think you feel pain once your soul has been taken, I'm not sure though, If you know of any books in game that could clear this up, that would be helpful. That said, once you kill the creature, assuming he she or it doesn't feel any pain, you might as well use the soul

Losing your soul normally means eternal damnation and such.

In religion and fantasy, the soul is often 'you', aka, the spirit inside of your body, and it's eternal(normally you go somewhere after dying, it doesn't all go black).

Now imagine someone using your eternal soul for a spell or a ritual :tongue:

In fact, it would be better to give yourself to Mehrune Dagon despite him hating your guts.
Maybe after 10.000 years in one of his torture chambers, you might finally get a chance to stand at his side!

A few 10-100.000 years of pain beats eternal damnation xD

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:56 pm

Losing your soul normally means eternal damnation and such.

In religion and fantasy, the soul is often 'you', aka, the spirit inside of your body, and it's eternal(normally you go somewhere after dying, it doesn't all go black).

Now imagine someone using your eternal soul for a spell or a ritual :tongue:

In fact, it would be better to give yourself to Mehrune Dagon despite him hating your guts.
Maybe after 10.000 years in one of his torture chambers, you might finally get a chance to stand at his side!

A few 10-100.000 years of pain beats eternal damnation xD

Yeah, but its fantasy, Bethesda can make up any lore they want to regarding souls,

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:04 am

Yeah, but its fantasy, Bethesda can make up any lore they want to regarding souls,

Yeah, but what DO we know of their lore on souls?

The 'souls' in Sovngard seemed pretty much like the souls I talked about.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:50 am

Yeah, but its fantasy, Bethesda can make up any lore they want to regarding souls,

Yeah, but Daggerfall's evidence suggests when you use the soul for enchanting, they become the item, and have some sensory ability.

They also try to kill you when the item breaks and they become free.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:08 am

Yeah, but what DO we know of their lore on souls? :tongue:

The 'souls' in Sovngard seemed pretty much like the souls I talked about.

Usually souls go through the dreamsleeve in Aethurius and are recycled, depending on the beliefs of the person.

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:12 pm

There was a Redguard Mages Guild member in Oblivion. He said most people in Hammerfell were distrusting of wizards because they "steal souls" amongst other things. But at the same time, he sold Soul Trap, and was friends with the priest at the Shrine of Azura. He had problems with summoning spells himself, but didnt have problems selling a Conjuration spell or two.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:08 am

When you use a soulgem, you're tapping into the latent residual magicka of the soul within. You're not really making use of the soul itself. Besides, when the gem breaks the soul is freed to the afterlife, so it's really not that bad.

Some people believe it's wrong to soul trap another human being simply because you're doing so against their will, but whatever. I have no qualms against soul trapping people that initiate combat with me, like bandits.

^ this

Think of it as cleansing the world, and using the baddies against themselves

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:37 am

I was thinking of a audio mod that adds screaming,moaning or "No No Not this!" or animals crying,it would add an element of emotional response from you.Either you get off from taking a soul or find it too painful to do it,

Evil or painful necessity?

Either way it would stop and make you think.

Sadly i don't have the expertise to create mods and its going to take me a year to learn the basics,svck!

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:45 am

^ this

Think of it as cleansing the world, and using the baddies against themselves :smile:

But what about the constant effect enchantments on apparel, isn't that a bit cruel to make them into such a thing?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:01 am

But still, why the [censored] does it matter? It's a game mechanic. Just enchant your weapons and be done. I never went that deep with an RP aspect...

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:21 am

But what about the constant effect enchantments on apparel, isn't that a bit cruel to make them into such a thing?

i just posted my opinion

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:34 am

i just posted my opinion :wink:

How am I supposed to predict your opinion?

Still, mechanics or not, would you hypothetically do such a thing?

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:24 am

However, in Daggerfall when the weapon broke, the soul of that which you used to make it attacks you for trapping it.

You should notice that that doesn't happen in any of the games that have been released in the past 15 years. ;-)

What you said is a made-up justification to make people feel better about imprisoning souls within items.

Perhaps, but unless you can find something that thoroughly debunks my theory then I will continue to believe it. Most every thing we "know" about soul gems has been made up.

By the way, an interesting thing to notice about Umbra is that it is essentially one very large and sharp soulgem. Therefore, when it kills something the soul of it's prey will be svcked into the blade, but that's completely different from using an already occupied soul gem to replenish the magickal energies of an enchanted item.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:43 am

But what about the constant effect enchantments on apparel, isn't that a bit cruel to make them into such a thing?

You just gave me an idea that's too large for me to attempt or if it's even possible

A Dark to Radiant disposition bar, depends on whether or not you drip with evil countenance or shine with knightly light,too much soul trapped gear on should resonate with the dark shadow effect like boethias mail.

Then the reaction from npc's will be with audio inserts,"Like killing don't you" or "Let's get this over fast,your type i try not to deal with"

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:21 am

Yeah, but what DO we know of their lore on souls? :tongue:

The 'souls' in Sovngard seemed pretty much like the souls I talked about.

Oh, I didn't know, do you know an in game book that explains that, or at least the uesp article

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:39 pm

We had this discussion a while back. Someone with a good knowledge of TES-lore posted a link which said that the soul is released when you destroy the soul gem (by enchanting or recharging).

So, morally speaking, you're off the hook if you eventualle release all the souls you have trapped.