I'm a greedy [censored] and love being rich. It's annoying as hell how little gold merchants have though and i'm tired of having to go to 5 different people to sell all my stuff. So are speech perks worth it or just a waste?

You will have so much coin you won't know what to do with it all at later levels, i did not put a single point into the speech and at level 30 i got more then 150,000. So from my experience that would be no but that's just me.

I probably wouldn't bother, but I sympathise with your frustration trying to sell loot. Taking the perks wouldn't be the way to optimise your character, but might be worth it for you if you find shopping for buyers that annoying and enjoy stacking cash even once you've run out of things to buy.

They are if you'd rather persuade your way through some quest chats instead of fighting.

They're probably not worth it.. I took them anyway though. The lack of money on the NPC's side was starting to really annoy me, so I took the trading perks all the way down the left hand side of the tree. It makes offloading loot soooooo much less tedious.

I love the Speech tree, but I suppose it's just me. I have two characters with points invested all the way to the top. My current character is level 30 with 100 speech and points to the top. I enjoy having money, like yourself, but I also like being able to sell my stolen goods to everybody. It's really up to you, but I enjoy the Speech tree. Also, if you want an easy way to become Thane in the holds, having the perk to invest in someone's business works as an "assist" to the people of each Hold.

That perk along with the one before it which allows you to sell any kind of item to any merchant makes the Riverwood Trader an absolute godsend. That's the only place I sell my loot now. For me that guy has just under 12000 gold to trade every 48 hours, and he'll buy absolutely anything.

for me, yes. I took it up to where I can invest in merchants. An interesting side effect to this is once you invest in that rude woman who runs the clothing shop in solitude, suddenly she's not so rude to you anymore.

Anywho because of alchemy/enchanting/smithing I like to be able to sell anything to anyone, and have 10000 gold at the merchant in whiterun. And there's plenty of perks to go around with this build, because very little points need to be spent in one handed, heavy armor, block, bows, etc.. just enchanting, smithing, alchemy, conjuration, and 2 in restoration..

The most valuable potion in the game, in my sig, sells for more than 3000 with a 29% alchemy necklace on.. so the whiterun guy is good for that. Or just buy any grand soul gems the mages have and unload them.

It's not just you. Every character I've played has had it as a part of his or her concept.

There is no speech, there is only mercantile ...
That aside, no, not really. Find yourself a merchant that is also a trainer in a skill you need, and let him train you. That will give him some extra coin that you can then get back by selling your loot.

The only reason it is worth anything is for the 10,000 gold merchant you can get by investing.

False. You get to use Persuade, Bribe and Intimidate in-game. Not very often, but the options are there.

Why did they take away the ability to sell stolen items to a merchant? Well as long as your didn't steal it from them anyway.

Didn't read previous posts and answer is deffinitely no.
Keep hoarding stuff while dungeon crawling and selling it afterward will do the trick fast enough, you don't need to throw away coins and training slots with this skill.

EDIT : for the persuades and all those things, once you get the Amulet of Articulation the skill itself becomes pointless.

I would love to know how merchants tell stolen and non-stolen items apart. If it's an especially particular or well-known item, sure ... but food? Really?

It's spent with perk points, or if you join the Thieves Guild.

Sorry, hyperboles don't seem to get across very well on the internet. :/

Yes. In fact, you should only invest in speech perks. Otherwise you are just setting yourself up for failure.

I never put points in it an it took me till 18 to get the 5k to get a house lol
Could be that I just dont now what to do to make craploads of money though lol

I really like the ability to sell anything to anyone. Its a godsend when trying to unload all that loot from a dungeon-crawl. For my character's RP, it was worth the perks.

Well, I'm going to RP for perks in the speech tree. As for making a perfect character, clearly no. It's a useful tree, but it's not as "useful" as others. Depends on what you want your character to be. Do you want to "win" the game, or do you want to run around and just have fun doing things your own way?

You will see benefits from the speech tree. They just won't help you kill anything.

After reading the posts in this thread and some more consideration, I've changed my mind. I probably would and will bother. I usually have perks to spare after filling out any given build, and not being able to sell loot frustrates me more than I thought it did, especially with alchemy. I wouldn't buy the first perk more than once, though.

Well I don't really try to get the most expensive stuff and sell it so I don't get a ridiculous amount of gold, Speech helps for this, and with the points I invest I can get enough gold to spend on Training skills I don't use so I can level up more for stat points.

OP: next time you use the word "worth" in a question, you have to clarify your value system. What it comes down to is value. In my value system, if it's fun... it's valueable. If it's not fun, it's not. Keep the game fun.

I have more trouble with having to drop things than with selling them all.
Wouldn't be my character without persuasion and allure, though. I can understand why some think it's a useless tree, but for some of us it's essential.