I know this thread might seem a bit random, but there are just a few things I need to vent about KotOR plus I do have a technical question about the PC version of KotOR II that I would really appreciate some experienced answers to before I shell out $25 to be able to replay one of my favorite games... this time on a PC (for question only, please scroll down to bottom segment... might be a long rant ).

First off, I didn't obtain either KotOR near release day, but I've played both perhaps 4 or 5 years ago on an old Xbox a family friend gave to me as a gift. I was in love immediately and I wasn't even a Star Wars fan (it's the games that inspired me to finally get around to the movies... pretty good, but I liked KotOR more). Anyway, I was familiar with BioWare beforehand as they made one of the first RPGs I can recall ever playing, Baldur's Gate II, and I loved it. Though a bit different in style, KotOR was a natural fit, afterwards... though KotOR II was my first Obsidian game. Anyway, I loved it... it was an amazing, single-player, mystical sci-fi RPG with a setting that just wowed me and it (the first KotOR) quickly became one of my favorite games of all time, if it isn't my favorite.

Following that, I bought a copy of KotOR II. Though I didn't like it quite as much and I definitely felt upset over how it was, unfortunately, rushed, I still liked the game quite a bit and was excitedly waiting in anticipation for anything on a KotOR III. We all know the rest... ToR Republic got announced instead, I was deeply saddened, and blah-blah-blah. I tried to get over it and forget it... move on with other games and the like, but even BioWare were no longer around to keep pushing out Baldur's Gates, Neverwinter Nights, and KotORs anymore. I did get to Dragon Age: Origins a couple years ago and loved it (gameplay design felt very similar to KotOR's and to a degree, Baldur's Gate's and I liked it... though I liked KotOR's setting more), then Dragon Age II came out and I just never purchased it or rented it or anything because of how shockingly horrible people were saying it was (I know, some people like it, but I'm not up for a cheesy, rehashed action game with a "button-awesome" philosophy behind it and DLC all over the place... didn't like it when Origins did it and certainly don't like it when other games do it).

I also never got into Mass Effect because it just looks like a corridor shooter... people say the first was a decent RPG, but it never came to my platform (PS3) and I've heard plenty of complaints with the direction 2 and 3 have taken the series + played a demo of 2 and just didn't care for it. As you may have guessed, I'm one of those former BioWare fans who just absolutely loathe them, now. This whole console generation has just been one big disappointment, to me... DLC, over-dependence on patches, "streamlining" and/or rehashing of games to fit a "gritty", "dark", "realistic" action or shooter-based model, more technical issues and inferiority I ever recall suffering in the past, over-inflated development budgets completely reducing risk and the amount of games actually being made, etc. I watched a former favorite company (BioWare) turn into something I barely recognize, I've watched the sequel to my beloved KotOR series turn into an MMO, the home console sequel to my beloved DQ VIII turn into an MMO, the sequels to my beloved Final Fantasy XII turn into either a linear... CGI demo (?) with the most cheesy, Twilight-ish whatever I've ever seen in a video game or an MMO (Final Fantasy XIV), and Bethesda still don't give a rat's rear about properly programming anything (especially not on PS3... or maybe only not on PS3) + they're also in on the "streamlining".

Anyway, I hate the current video game era I refer to as the current console-generation (can't measure in PC terms, can I... except maybe DOS and post-DOS eras ) with a few exceptions and I've just been going back and playing a lot of older games, instead. I bought replacements for my lost Baldur's Gate games, have started looking into some older JRPGs, been messing with Daggerfall more than usual, been thinking about Deus Ex and System Shock, and especially going back for my crown jewel, the KotOR series. My friend was kind enough to surprise me with a Steam gift of KotOR I and playing it again feels so good after such a long time. I still have my Xbox copies of both games and still have an original Xbox, but I just don't want to bother with a 480p resolution and that clunky setup/controller if I can avoid it... plus the discs are scratched pretty badly and the controller doesn't work too well.

So, the nostalgic memories come flying back and I just feel so much at home in places such as Dantooine, Tatooine, and Manaan (my memories are full of nostalgic fondness for video games and settings/soundtracks get me the most). Now I need a copy of KotOR II to complete it all, though KotOR II is far less pretty and peaceful in a lot of ways, but I'll continue that in that final question segment I mentioned (if you can remember that far back, anyway ). However, I've become so reattached to these KotOR games that now I'm desperately craving a KotOR III. ToR just came out and as I understand it, it's a replacement for future KotORs and I don't trust BioWare with anything anymore, anyway, so it seems I'll never get what I want. I don't play MMOs, no exception, and I have my reasons (one, montly subscription fee... two words, hell no; two, far too much reliance on the online and multiplayer aspect means that the experience as a whole, especially story and characterization as that's a bit harder with a million former Revan wannabes or protagonists rather than just one, so to speak, + when the servers eventually go down with all the money I put into it, it will just be gone forever), so no amount of convincing will get me to play the game much less stop hating it. That's why I think this post was better-suited out of the ToR thread because I want nothing to do with the game and ToR players certainly don't need me moping around their thread being bitter and ruining their fun.

At the end of all this, I'm not even sure why I posted that other than to vent a bit and maybe discuss it, whatever is left to discuss, with a few other people. It would make me feel better to finally sit down and have some type of talk with other KotOR fans on their thoughts regarding this specific issue. Is it possible there will ever be a KotOR III? What's the history and reasoning behind the choices made with ToR? What do you think.


Aside from that, here's the question:

The problem is that Steam (not much of a steam fan, but some older games are hard to track down... only have KotOR I on steam) don't have it (couldn't believe it) and the PC version is going for ~25 on Amazon, but I heard from a friend of mine who has both KotOR I and KoTOR II on his PC that while KotOR runs fine on max settings, KotOR II barely runs at all... which has me shocked as the two games practically share the same engine and his PC is far stronger than mine. I want to get KotOR II, but what's going on here? He's got a windows 7, 64-bit PC, like myself, so... Also, are there really KotOR and, especially, KotOR II mods out there worth much? I've heard rumors of a KotOR II restoration mod I'm interested in.


Thanks for your time.

The first Kotor got me into rpg′s. I bought it by "accident" thinking it was another jedi knight game. I wasn′t really a fan of rpg′s at the time, but after an hour of playing, I got hooked.
I don′t really think there will be a Kotor 3. Online playing/paying is the new trend.

There's a large KOTOR mod called http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/Brotherhood_of_Shadow;83006. I've never been able to play it since I can't get KOTOR to run properly on my new PC. Black screens when AA is on, and bad performance.

Supposedly it's pretty good.

There was a big KOTOR 2 restoration project that eventually died after long periods of inactivity. There's another project called http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/;115177 which was finished. I haven't tried this one either because I haven't played the game in years.

I have had the reverse experience. I cannot finish KoTOR 1 on PC due to a game breaking bug but KoTOR 2 has run perfectly. I'm actually in the middle of a KoTOR 2 playthrough at the moment with a content restoration mod (TSL Restored Content Project) installed and it is amazing. The critical moments in the game are so much better with a restoration mod. You find yourself thinking "oh thats cool that wasn't in the original". The original content is still a blast and I wholeheartedly recommend buying KoTOR 2 for PC.
I wasn't put down too much by TOR, there are still loads of developers with the right ideas who are producing great RPGs. If the Witcher 2 is released on PS3 you should play that.

Trust me, I would... problem is, it's not being released on the PS3 anytime I can see.

About TSL, the voice-acting isn't cheesy, out-of-place, or anything?

TSL mostly uses sound files that were originally going to be used in the game but were removed due to time constraints. I've only come across one character who sounds like her voice was done by an amateur and she only makes one appearance. TSL just puts what is already on the disc into the game. Its how they figured out the plot of some missing content, they just listened to sound files and tried to work out what they were supposed to be for.
Bear in mind that I haven't got to the End Game section yet, which is supposedly where most of the restored content is (can't wait) so there might be more amateur voice acting than I am currently aware of.

A lot of it is just small things like making battles that much more epic. For example at the end of Dantooine the big battle (not much of a spoiler) consisted of fighting about 6 guys outside and then 6 guys inside. With TSL you have to assign squads to certain doorways, choose where you will be fighting and then when the battle comes its you and a dozen allies vs about 3 waves of 20, which was amazingly fun.

So much left partially finished still on the disc, eh? Aside from that bug with the original KotOR, have you noticed any disparity in how the two versions perform? I've got a really low-end PC (laptop) and am already scraping the bottom of the barrel with KotOR I in performance, so...

edit: For the record, I've already beat KotOR II once. I'm aware of everything already in the game.

Their performance seemed about equal to me, but that was a while ago. I do remember needing to disable multi-core use for the processor to get them to work properly, though.

KoTOR 2 runs better than KoTOR 1 does. With KoTOR 1 I get really frequent framerate drops, my game sometimes pauses followed by my character leaping forward and it crashes fairly regularly. With KoTOR 2 I have had no crashes and only once have I had the framerate drop/leap forward thing.
I just had a look at system requirements and they are almost identical.
I hope that helps. I'm off to sleep now but if you have any other questions you can PM me.

Thanks.

Thanks to the rest of you, too. The only thing I'm wondering now is why Steam don't have KotOR II and why the physical copies are surprisingly expensive.

In addition, I was wondering if anyone else was having CTDs in switching between cutscenes and gameplay in KotOR? For some reason, this happens to me. Sometimes the screen just flickers and the cutscene goes on to play (explaining how the game isn't unplayable because of this issue), but other times, it just crashes or stops responding. It's really weird and irritating.

I hated the Kotor series and the Star Wars games in general because they are misleading and rather annoying. I love games where you can choose who you want to be and do what you want. Wasn't KOTOR suppose to give the player that option of doing things that will effect the galaxy? What peevs me is that most Star Wars games has a "lightside ending".(I refuse to call it "good" because in Star Wars, there are alot of moral issues between light and dark that conflict. And I don't like the lightside). The lightside ending is always constantly made canon in the end.

I spent hours playing these games, racking up on Dark Side Sith points only to find out the path I had chosen in the end is not even going to thrive in the continuity? You're going to tell me a Lord of the Sith was corrupted by the lightside after the Jedi kidnapped him, erased his memory and practically brainwashed him? Kotor II was the same exact thing.

Star Wars: Force Unleashed. You play as a Dark Acolyte, a young man named Starkiller who was taken under Darth Vader's wing to grow up and kill thieves, smugglers and rival politicians until he was of proper age to kill Jedi(When the game begins). So throughout the game, you are hunting Jedi. Without spoling much of the final level, I am going to say that the canon ending is lightside. The Dark Side ending a simple "what if".


SWTOR offers a different perspective. Sith is Sith. Dark Side is Dark Side and no lightside ending is canon for the Empire. Thank you Bioware.

Well I decided that since my game was so close to me that I would take a picture of it and http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/Schnakers/Pictureofme1.png (who needs steam anyways. ). The game runs perfectly fine on my computer on max settings and my computer is getting old.

KOTOR was better than the second one IMO. I remember playing the first Knights of the Old Republic on Xbox and I was hooked. I spent a good year playing just that game and maybe another. When I first saw an advertisemant for The Old Republic I was so excited. So research the game and find out that it's an MMO.

I was disappointed because I'm not into MMOs that much and I don't have a PC. Plus, it would've been great to play KOTOR 3 if there ever was one.

This was such a good premise that Bioware ultimately botched. The story should have been a personal journey for the Revan character. Smaller, more intimate. What do you do after learning what makes you you has been utterly erased from your mind? There's some really interesting moral and ethical questions that could have been delved into. Instead we got a typical, cliche Arch bad guy with a superweapon plot.

The civil war should have been a backdrop, not the focus.

You are 100% correct. I'm on the same bus as you. The second was no where near as good as the first. I also don't care much for MMO's.

kotor was an amazing game and i played it for years, you can play it twice and get a completely different experience, that's so amazing. the game was solid, the mechanics were great, the game was just a 10/10. then i got kotor II. i wanted to kill myself. that game was so bad that i literally didn't even get out of the starter ship. it was just stupid.

I can't help you with the main concern of your thread, KOTOR, but I thought you'd appreciate knowing that GOG sells old games for really cheap, all of them patched to work on even the latest Windows system. You're welcome.

This is not related to your question but I feel I have to share it with you as a fellow KOTOR lover. I played KOTOR I and II (The first was far better) as well ,they are on the top of my favorite games list. I too feel Bioware ruined dragon age but I loved ME. I was worried that TOR would ruin the series, I am not into MMOs and TOR is my first besided Runescape. I bought it and all of my worried where layed to rest. I have been playing for about a month now and I can tell you the experience is just like KOTOR only beefed up a bit. You do not have to play with people, you can go through it entirely on your own (which I have been doing myself). It feels like a single player game with the option to play it as an MMO.

They may share the same engine but that does not make them equal in terms of how they'll perform on systems vs. Kotor1. That came up time and time again in the old days...they're not the same.
Kotor2 has always had issues with Vista (and now Win7) for many people. eg, it wasn't designed to run on those OS. Not everyone will have problems & some will run the game just fine, but there's some common issues, some minor, some preventing play. Sometimes some tweaking works for those people. It runs ok on my Win7 pc but it does have some odd quirks to it, that weren't there on XP. I can't speak to the Steam version.

This Obsidian forum post has some of the common ones with Vista, that might apply to Win7 as well, with links to possible solutions posted on the LucasArts boards (some of the links are too old/don't work anymore). http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/41038-kotor2-technical-faq-statistics-mod-info/page__view__findpost__p__760302

Kotor2 also had difficulty with certain laptop chipsets, IIRC...or perhaps it was certain laptop GPU chipsets. It's been a long time.

And a monthly fee that is not optional. [censored] Bioware.

Comparing with BG series, KotOR was just slightly above average. GoG has plenty old titles before the streamlining period.

I'm not sure which KoTOR game I prefer. KoTOR 2 feels a lot meatier, it has an improved upgrade system, the party influence system and I prefered the story. While KoTOR 1 had a nice plot twist the rest of the story is quite straightforward. In contrast KoTOR 2 is much darker, there is more manipulation and deception. While in KoTOR 1 the distinction between Sith and Jedi was made very clear, in KoTOR 2 the lines between the two are blurred. I also thought Kreia was more interesting as a character than anybody else, the conversations you have with her cast a lot of doubts on what you thought was true about the Star Wars universe. She also reveals a lot about Revan and his motivations which KoTOR 1 didn't take the opportunity to explore.
That said I think KoTOR 1 was superior in its low-level design, I remember a lot more of the side quests from KoTOR 1 than I do of 2. It was also a lot longer and planets such as Korriban were more fleshed out.

I recently completed KoTOR 2 with a content restoration mod installed and now I want to play TOR. What I most like the sound of is the ability to side with the Sith but not be a greedy thug like you had to be in KoTOR, it sounds as if you can justify your loyalties.

"I spent hours playing htese games, racoking up on Light Side Jedi points only to find out that path I had chosen in the end is not even going to thrive in the continuity? You're going to tell me a Lord of the Sith wasn't given a second chance by the lightside after the Jedi captured him and erased his memory?"

This is the problem with moral choice systems.

ALL moral choice systems.

Ever.

Well look at it this way, your monthly fee brings you a constant flow of new content. You can't get the majority of DLC for free can you? I have always been against monthly subscriptions, but now I see why they are needed in the MMO area, they keep the game maintained by fixing bugs, issues and glitches right away rather than months after release, and bring us great quality content.