You have to get to the Empire First to get to the thalmor. By your logic your saying that Ulfric, on his own could raise an army from within the Empire for his own purpose... that wouldn't be allowed. Him declaring indepenence in Skyrim is completley nessecary.

eh, the Dragonborn will be High King.

Whether the Empire or Ulfric wins.

Who has the more support? The Thane of every hold or the controversial choice.

You might have to fight the Empire first. MIGHT. It's far from a sure thing. Hammerfell seemed to have been let go rather than fought for. Certainly if all of Skyrim decided to reject the Empire, they'd probably not fight for it, given how thinly stretched Imperial forces are. Instead Ulfric didn't even bother trying to have a united Skyrim and went straight for having civil war in Skyrim, which is the move of an idiot.

And yeah, a resistance movement can exist within a given government or nation. It could move more freely throughout the Empire than an actual army, and possibly wreck far more harm. Over time the Altmeri Dominion could well decide the Thalmor's goals aren't worth the trouble. It's an effective strategy. This would fairly effectively avoid conflicts with friendlies. Remember, if you end the ability of the Thalmor to maintain any sort of military presence in the Empire, then you end the ability of them to enforce the insane demands of their treaty (which is the only reason it is enforced).

Ulfric had options that didn't require civil war in Skyrim. He didn't even try any of them out, not even the easiest, which was simply talking to the High King before challenging him.

Yeah, the irony is the Thalmor would have a larger time conquering MULTIPLE states than one large one.

It was what everyone was terrified with the Civil War.

If they didn't get a formal surrender, the war would never end.

The Person who the Jarl's support. Jarl's won't want a Thane on the throne, they would rather chose themself's before someone of lower rank.

Sadly, i wish Elsywer didn't become part of the Thalmor associates.. thats another reason why i don't like the empire. they can't even protect its provinces apart from cyrodill.

What do you mean? The Empire is tied very close to the thalmor. The Empire would be sent to defend the Thalmor intrests, if a threat arose.

There's not really any evidence of that, from what I've seen and read. Do you have something to point out that I missed? On the other hand, it is made quite clear in the game that officials of the Empire hate the Thalmor and have routinely ignored Thalmor interests (like the ban on Talos worship) as much as possible.

The Empire of Tiber Septim is dead. It was at death's door when Emperor Uriel VII was assassinated and died when Crown Prince Martin Septim became the Avatar of Akatosh. Now the son of some boneheaded warlord is the Emperor and they are the almighty Dominion's puppet to be played with.

Tied by being conquered by the Thalmor, after the events of Oblivion. They're bound by treaty, and the fact the thalmor spared the Empire.

To be fair, we don't really know Ulfric's relationship with Torygg. We know that Torygg had been around him several times but not what was discussed.

Elisif (It's either Elisif, her Steward or the Court Wizard) says that Torygg respected Ulfric and if he had simply asked for secession, Torygg would probably have done it.

And they follow that treaty when the Thalmor are watching, don't when they aren't being watched, and hate it all the while. It seems pretty much accepted by all parties that the current "peace" between the Empire and Thalmor isn't going to last.

But it is known that he would have last nothing by trying to talk first even if one is in favor of barbaric challenges.

Think it's the wizard that says it. But she's not Torygg.



True, but it doesn't mean he never talked to Torygg about it either. They could've been discussing it the previous night for all we know.

We know they weren't discussing it the previous night, because Ulfric killed Torygg soon after he got to the city.