Hi,


Today I bought Fallout Vegas and I thought that I would spend the rest of the evening playing an exciting game. Right now I can say that it was a foolish thought... and it's not because I didn't like the game, I'm sure I would enjoy it. It's just that I didn't manage to install it. Everything because, once again steam failed to update itself. It hangs on 26% and won't move any farther. Here I must say that it is not the first time I had a problem with steam. I had many other issues with it and each time I lost hours trying to fix problems with that buggy software.

Now let's try to look at my current situation.... I have about 25 games in my cabinet and quite a few of them require steam. right now I cannot play any of those games, cause steam won't work. And this is a thing I really don't understand.... I mean... I do know that steam is used to protect from piracy etc... that's understandable, but as far as i know there was not a single game in the history of computers that could not be cracked... so who is suffering because of steam more - pirates or legal players? I think it's the second group. Pirates will always find a way to play a game, while people like me have to go through all the problems with steam or similar software.

And here I would like all of you who share my opinion to let Bethesda Softworks know about this. Please let them know about all the problems you had with steam. Perhaps this way we will put an end to this silly software which creates so many problems to people who love games.



Note1: Please don't try to help me to update steam. I know how to do it, because i went through this before. All I have to do is to install it on another PC and then copy the steam folder from that PC to my computer. the problem is that I will have access to another PC in 2 days (When the weekend ends).
Note2: For those who would say that with steam I can get many other thinks, like communication with other players, great offers etc... No! I am 31 years old, I buy at least 5 games a year, I play games for over 15 years and I'm not interested in any of those extras... I just would like to play this fantastic game. Nothing else.
Note3: Steam can exist as an option, it should not be obligatory.


Kind regards,
Wojtek.

That sounds like a Steam problem, do use need the Bethesda forum to give you a link for Steam technical support?

Have you checked to see if there is any sort of solution over at the Steam forums? This really isn't the right place for it. Or is this a subtle attempt to guide subsequent Fallouts away from Steam?

Edit - spelling

I understand that this is a steam problem but as I mentioned, I know how to fix this.

I would like game developers to know about the problem and stop using steam in the current form. I think that's not the way to treat customers. We should not be forced to use steam. It should be an option.

sure, no problem, just let me know where.... I'm not a native speaker... sorry about it.

--
Wojtek,

I think he meant his own spelling.

Also Im not on PC at the moment (360) but when I upgrade at christmas this is on my list to buy again.

I'd like steam to be optional, but im not bothered either way.

You are quite fine with your spelling and whatnot. I misspelled place as play.

I had that problem back when the UI update was released, and the only way to fix it was the method you mentioned. Back then some people mentioned being able to to download the update by running Steam in Windows Server 2008 compatibility mode, but it never worked for me. Ever since doing that trick Steam has thankfully had no issues.

Did i learn anything? No. My Steam library grows ever larger :blush:

There isnt a tumbler lock on this planet that can't be picked, but you know what, I'm still gunna lock my door when I leave my house.

Given steam's benefits - SIngle platform for Patches and DLC (With built in payment system, even less for them to worry about) and players not having to worry about losing or damaging their disc, I'm gunna go ahead and say the pirates. If you're having problems opening steam, please contact steam customer service.


For there to be a non-steam option, this is going to need a lot more work.

Firstly, Bethesda have to create, or get access to an alternative content delivery system for patches and DLC. This could actually make your game more buggy if the game code needs to be changed (the more complicated you make things, the more likely problems are going to crop up) to check for multiple sources for these. Bethesda are going to have to setup a payment system to take your money for the DLC.

Secondly, you're probably going to have to make patches a manual thing. Steam does all of this automagically in the background at the moment, meaning the casual user who thinks a patch is something you use on a hole in your sleeves gets the most up to date version in a reasonable time-frame. Manual patching means more work for tech support as they have to go through the "Check your version number, oh its not the latest patch, you need to patch it here's how" speech with more people. Guess who has to pay for those phone-jockeys: you the consumer through higher prices.

When everyone's patched and DLC'd those servers are going to be sitting mostly Idle. Bethesda is still gong to have to pay for them, and guess who ends up paying for that - you the consumer through higher prices. With Steam, Steam can reallocate these resources to other games that need the extra capacity - think of paying a cleaner a full time wage when you only need them to clean 8 hours a week and how silly that would be - Only employ them for the 8 hours and you save money) and allocate it back when new content is released.

Lastly, given that they are a large gaming marketplace, and making you install their software increases the chance of buying stuff from them; Steam might have offered Bethesda a decent hunk of change. This means Bethesda has more cash to put into projects, or keep prices down.

I also hate it when steam is upgrading or something and an online program I don't even want forces me to wait for some time untill I can finally play a game I paid money for and already have installed on my pc.

There used to be a time when you could play a game anytime you wanted when you had bought it and installed it, nowadays ******** internet programs you are forced to use hinder you doing so...

Presuming you could find the disc, it wasn't undamaged, and SecurROM didn't throw a hissy-fit.

Or you didn't loose the manual/included "Feely" (such as Monkey Island's Dial-A-Pirate).


And there are hundreds of publishers out there who will be more than happy to listen to you should you find a solution that is both inobtrusive and protects their property.

Opening Ports isnt something thats just unique to legal games, if your router doesn't know the traffics for your game, then its not going to forward it on.

1. I don't think there's any extra cost involved, you have to remember that it takes some time and money to integrate steam with the game. It's much easier to create installation file which will simply replace existing files with the new ones.
2. I don't mind downloading and installing software myself. All i need is a reminder that a new patch has been released. That's easy for any company these days.
3. as to the selling more thorough steam... yes why not... sell as much as possible, but please don't put a spamming software on my PC. Normally if you play a web browser game for free you have to watch advertisemants from the game sponsors and I understand that. I payed for the fallout new Vegas. I do not wish to see any extra advertisemants.

Please think about this - no other known to me software causes such problems. All known to me applications work without an update. They might crash from time to time, but they will work. No application will stop other ones... steam problem affects many games on my PC.


regards,
Wojtek.

Firstly, it's more about distribution costs than it is about piracy, digital distribution is cheaper, I'm not saying I agree as I prefer hard copies, but lets clear that up, it's about distribution costs.

Secondly, you are not the only person who has complained about steam advertizing, yet the complaint is unwarrented as it can be turned off in the steam options.

Thirdly, the only problem I've had with Steam is it can be damn slow at bringing up it's listing pages.

SOLUTION:

UNPLUG your modem and steam will go into offline mode....but that only works if the game is already registered online

Really. Could you please direct me to the place where you're getting industrial grade webservers and internet connections for free? Also could you drop a link to that bank that offers free merchant accounts and card processing?

But this song ain't about you. Unless you've got a few million in your back pocket, Bethesda aren't going to get a game created around your bespoke requirements. They need to create a game that benefits the masses, and that includes those out there who don't know how to patch.

You also pay for movie tickets and DVDs, but product placement helps pay for the movie too - Theres a reason why James Bond drives the car he does, ET eats Reece's Pieces and drinks Coor's beer, BumbleBee transforms into a GM Camaro, etc. If you have Subscription/Pay/Cable TV then you're paying for TV channels that also display ads. This is a pretty standard thing in the Media industry, and it helps keep prices down.

Be thankful it does not use GFWL..... that "service" is always a pain.

Actually, I disagree...sure, distribution costs are cheaper, but why then require games to continually keep logging on to play? Surely if it was only about the cost, you would only have to sell it online once, and then that's it.

At least Steam is fairly stable, compared to other systems - As said by someone, GFWL is a real svck, but Ubisoft's system is even worse. I had a log on problem with AC2, and checked Ubi's forums - aside from their tech staff and moderators being the rudest and most arrogant bunch of *sswipes on the forums, there was no tech support or suggestions on how to fix the log on problem. In fact, I counted 68 pages of complaints in relation to that one issue, and it has never been resolved...and that was on Ubi's own server system. Incidentally, Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic also earnt the name: SH5: Battle To Log On.

I might suggest that the issue why companies are going to dlc and the log on to play requirements is probably more to do with preventing on-selling or trade in of games, otherwise they would provide an easy means of transferring registration from one consumer to another. As far as the companies are concerned, their games are 'intellectual property', rather than physical property. If you buy a game on disc, all you are buying is the packaging and the disc, and the rights to play the game under the terms and conditions that the company provides, and requires you to agree to.

TES IV is But i'd suspect the decision will be made based on feedback they get from New Vegas. If majority agrees, i suspect TES V will be a Steamworks game :shrug:

Yeah, I meant TES V, and I sure hope not, unless it's optional. Otherwise, I elect *shudders* GFWL so long as removing it would be similar to its removal for FO3.

Also, it would be exceedingly simple to make achievements optional...

If bTrackAchievementsGLOB    ;AddAchievement ##Else   ;Do absolutely NOTHINGEndIf

...just in case there were achievement related crashes again.

GFWL being lesser evil compare to Steam.......you have been lucky.

The only way for me to play any GFWL games (note the last one is DoW2) stably is to have the GFWL invalided(or something) which basically kills it after log on is done in order to play the game (or something); in any case, I couldn't get achievement for it.

There is no single line of code which have to be changed. Or do you really think that [those whose name can not be written] recoded NV to work without Steam? Patches included?


Again there is no single line of code difference and not one second more of work for coders. Yes Publisher would need to place patch on the web somewhere but do you really think that for company which runs site as big as fallout.gamesas.com that really matters? Just look at number of downloads available there. You relay think one file matters?


:D So your masses don't know how to download patch for their game but they somehow managed to install and set Steam account?? Somebody blocked parts of their brains which are not related to Steam or what?

I presume the steam installation is intergrated into the game installation routine (I bought off steam, so I don't know how the retail version works; however when I have installed games in the past that use gamespy, direct X, or other "plug-in" programs, thats all been intergrated), no concious download required. As for setting up an account, filling a form isn't exactly hard.

Then the patch simply happens in the background, no concious thought required.

This compares to a manual patch system. John Q Technophobe has to realise first there's a patch available, download it, remember when he downloaded it, and then install it.

I work in tech support, believe me, it is impossible to underestimate just how dumb some people can be when it comes to "computer" stuff.


When that one file is hundreds of Meg, perhaps even GB large? Yes I do. None of the files I could see on the download section hit the 100Mb mark (although a few get close), and these aren't going to be downloaded by nearly as many people as the official patch will.

There's a reason why Blizzard cut costs by using Bittorrent to distribute their game files - its because Bandwith costs money.

well... I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that steam and other DRM type software is not the right thing. Thanks guys.

some of you mentioned that steam is not the worst one.... well... my mother always told me to compare to the better ones not to those who are worse.... and there are still many games which don't use any of those steam type platforms and they are still making good money.

Personally, I don't think that with one forum thread we can change anything, but I do think that it can be one of the elements which will help them to see through it. It can be something which will help to understand that there are customers who don't think that they are getting a quality product.

Bethesda should know that no matter how good the game is, I will remember about this problem and my whole impression will be destroyed.

--
Wojtek

Hmmm must of missed it, but the obvious answer is go buy the hard copy of the game or games and remove steam all together. I've said it before, the only way some companies will understand that people are not happy is to stop using their services.
The more people who stop using a service the more they will notice. Unfortunately most people these days are in the "I need it now crowd" and will allow companies gaming or otherwise to step all over them. Cable TV has been doing it for years.

And remove Steam how?

The hardcopy version requires Steam too.