Wanted to ask what others thought about the so called "Hero Death" element at the end of a story where the hero dies obtaining their goal. Don't see too many of these in films or TV which makes me wonder if in society today this isn't acceptable or people find it too gloomy. So far the only thing i've seen remotely akin to this is The Last Castle where the main character dies at the end even though he obtain his goal. Main reason I ask this is since i'm writing a story there's part of me that is curious if this is acceptable or if things should be more lighthearted/contemporary.

Even though as the writer I have the power to decide how the story begins/ends I would like audiences to accept what happens.

I think it's perfectly alright for a protagonist to die at the end of a story. In some cases, it can make things a lot more memorable. I can think up a load of examples too. I'll put it in spoiler tags so it doesn't ruin it for anyone who doesn't know.

Golum in The Lord of the Rings. Well he isn't the hero but still. He died obtaining his goal. :shrug:

Let put it in this way: Would ya rather die a hero and be remembered forever or live after being call the hero, grow old, and complain ya miss the old days?

It's assumed of an audience to like a happy ending. I personally love bad endings too. I read this book where the main character's little sister dies at the end and it was so sad because the characters were so well developed, you couldn't help but tie real world persons to those fiction book characters. It was a very sad ending to the book, especially since the events of the book were inspired to save the little sister. So, a main character technically did die.

Sad endings are only good if you develop the characters thoroughly. You have to make the audience FEEL the character come to life, give them real world traits, fears and anxieties. Those all make great characters.

That's the hardest goal that I seem to find lately and it's why I don't read too many books. Finding a way to develop that character then make the audience feel attached finally deciding his fate makes it tough. Don't want to just all of a sudden off the character and have that be the end of it but what justifies a "Hero's Death" so to speak?

Another thing that seems rather hard to develop is a character's personality where they maybe set out to die which may turn audiences away. At that point I truly question if an author guides the story or the story guides itself with the author just putting it into words.





That's another question that plagues me as well wondering if there is a time when a hero NEEDS to die or if they should be allowed to grow old. One example I saw of this is in Hercules by Disney where the character is given the choice to live on Olympus. Instead he chooses to grow old on Earth with the girl/woman he loves remaining mortal or atleast that's what I got from the end.

One thing that probably ticks an audience off more than anything is a hero that "dies" then comes back saying "hey it was all a trick" or "surprise i'm still alive."

Everyone in A Song of Ice and Fire?

That's not a spoiler btw, ^ I haven't even read the books but my friends tell me that the author isn't afraid of killing off characters

As a writer that's one thing i'm really hesitant to do is introduce a character then just kill them off. Done that twice so far with 1 story having 4 characters killed off then a 5th one at the end of the story. Really hesitant to do that since you put energy into making that character just absolutely killing it kind of stinks. Don't want to be a bunch of dang red shirts in my stories that's no fun.

I'm pretty sure this is largely driven by the hope / desire to use that character again in a later work. Personally, I prefer stories where the hero dies, but I understand why they are so rare.

Take that back! Gollum totally was the hero!

Keep in mind, that the reason for killing off characters is generally because the audience is emotionally invested in that character; if you kill off a flat and bland character, nobody will think twice. But if you kill off the sympathetic, beloved one, then it's a major blow to the reader.

So in other, the more suffering it causes for the reader, the more you should do it

That actually got me thinking about the "Noble Villain" sacrifice where the entity that was the main antagonist will sacrifice themselves for that "Greater Good" thing becoming a semi-hero in the process. Only seen this a few times with the only real mention I can say is the ending of the Men In Black TV series where Alpha sacrificed himself to save earth.

Definitely see where you are coming from Provided where flat characters aren't really important such as the redshirts "Hey bob go stand on that landmine *BOOM* NEXT UP". Hardest thing I keep thinking about is keeping the audience invested in the so called hero or perhaps the side hero then having that side-hero sacrifice themselves.

Read a bunch of online guides about fan-fiction, character writing, plus several anti-sue manuals. Trying to make sure characters aren't those superman like ones where they are impossible or near impossible to kill characters always coming out on top.

I reckon they dont kill them off that often is so they can make a sequel to it, if it does well that is.

I completely agree. The filthy fat hobbites got lucky.

I enjoy when this happens, I believe it doesn't happen enough.

Question is, do you accept it? If you think that the hero will die, then he dies. If you think that he will live, then he lives. You shouldn't shoehorn a conclusion for the sake of the audience. I think that if you do a good job of writing the character and the conflict his death or survival should be obvious in the end.

If we accept Hector as the "hero" (he's not the protagonist), then the Iliad provides the first and best example of a main character dying nobly. Of course it's very complex, but that's the first example that comes to mind. And if anyone has read Mishima Yukio's Runaway Horses (or any of the Sea Of Fertility tetralogy) there are other interesting examples of...protagonists. What about The Great Escape? Some heroes make it, some don't and some wind up back where they started. In history, there are many examples. (Compare Julius Caesar's fate to Cato's, for example).

A lot of it depends on the goal. Is it to complete some material deed, or to achieve a certain virtue? Was Achilles' goal to conquer Troy or merely achieve fame? Was the main point of the Iliad that he killed Hector, or that he ransomed his body? Did Hector's death on the battlefield succeed in his goal of being patriotic, or fail in it? The audience, I feel, is happy to see the protagonist die, if forced between morality and immorality, virtue and vice. But in the case of accomplishing some material deed, is martyrdom too simple, abrupt, or cheap? Well, it depends on the writer.

Ya that's one thing that just rubs me the wrong way where the character feels "forced" to make that choice being the so called martyr for the story. If it leads up to where the character has a choice to save their own life but let others die or die for the sake of others i'm ok. However just going from point A (Birth) to point B (Death through sacrifice) that's where it falls flat for me. Guess I do consider it cheap to be honest and one story I found that does a good twist on it is that Dogma movie with J and silent bob.

Main character doesn't understand/realize she's going to be a martyr even though she is brought back from death.

This.
I think it's kinda unnatural with "the protagonist always lives".

It's one of those things where if you can kinda guess the ending of the story, and even get close, it's probably not the best story out there.
Albeit, it doesn't make a story "bad" in my eyes.

In completely unrelated news, I now understand how Mods get the last slice of pizza.

EDIT: /shameless bump

Thanks for the advice all it's really given me some great ideas on how to develop my characters. Have one story i've had on the back burner for quite some time and while the character is "good" he could be extremely better. Want to turn the story into a 3 part adventure as the reader progresses onward learning how the character came into being. Also the reader learns about the world along with how the main character caused much of the world to look like it does. Hopefully gathering all of these notes I can get back on my book/novel/whatever which is a Sci-Fi post-apocalyptic setting.

Hero Death isn't popular in major productions because it eliminates the possibility of a sequel. Since sequels for popular content is considered low risk, publishers want to maximize potential sequel options and would reject content that doesn't allow for it.

You could probably get around that with a good character cast* or just an overarching baddie.

*maybe even the same or similar story from a different perspective. Like the LOtR trilogy, which is split into 6 books.

With the story i've had on hiatus i'm still developing the characters however there's a cavalcade of different people the main MC meets. The three that stick with him are hopefully pretty unusual as I try to develop the story. One of them is a legendary "Boogieman" of sorts who obtained his status by killing people/entities that were thought to be untouchable. He does follow the stereotypical dark/moody character but isn't without a dark sense of humor from time to time.

Biggest "no no" i've read online is having your character being able to do anything and everything as mentioned. As a result i'm going to re-sculpt the MC just a tad but leave him the same since he can take care of himself but really needs help from time to time.



Not surprised by it at all really and that's probably why some author's keep their characters alive for the sake of money. For me personally i'm writing this for fun and if it gets noticed fine if not fine i'm good either way.

I can't recall specific examples off the top of my head but I love when the main character dies at the end of the book. It's kind of morbid, but the emotion that it can bring up in you is great when the author does that. Especially when they have a chapter at the end with all of the main characters friends remembering and honoring the memory of their dead friend.