Did the Thalmor orchestrate this whole civil war in Skyrim to weaken the Empire? It is kind of hinted at during the end of the Stormcloak missions but I want to know what you guys think, do you think the Thalmor knew how much controversy outlawing Talos worship would start and just added fuel to the fire causing hundreds if not thousands of adventurers to take arrows to their knees.

They do try to take credit for it in Ulfric's dossier. But they try to take credit for everything.

Go back to the time when Ulfric was captured by the Thalmor and interrogated. When the Thalmor found out he was the next Jarl of Windhelm, they tried to use him as a spy. Some people believe while he was captured he gave information that allowed the Thalmor to capture the White Gold Tower. This is possible considering the fact if you were being tortured you do anything to save your ass. But in my opinion I do not think this was true at all since, Ulfric was not a Jarl at the time so his information reguarding the White Gold Tower would be rather limited. Secondly he's an easy escape goat since some people already do not like him for going against the Empire.

With this all said, the Thalmor were hoping to use him as a spy, but that did not work out as plan. Ulfric took back Markarth from the Forsworn. This would be an issue for the Thalmor because that was one less city to worry about worshiping Talos and to "take" over. I would assumed this pissed the A.D.off-very much.

Now Ulfric goes a step further and challenges the High King to combat and defeats him. Again this would piss the Thalmor off. The high king took orders from the Empire and the Empire took orders from the Thalmor. Now Skyrim is in a state of chaos. The Empire needs to gain Skyrim back because the Thalmor need to remain a tight noose around the Nords, especially those who worship Talos.

I presume the real reason the Thalmor want Ulfric dead is because he knows too much about the Thalmor and he refused to be a spy for them. The Thalmor cannot simply come out and give the true reasons for wanting Ulfric's head cut off, so they can use the excuse, he worships Talos and defies the Empire. But really when you go against the Empire (now a days) you are going against the Thalmor too.

The Civil War makes the Thalmor stronger, a much weaker Empire, means its easier to knock over and take over. This why the Thalmor are sitting on the side like vultures, waiting for the right time to strike; because to the A.D. the Empire belongs to them.

Except that info that he gave was unimportant in the grand scheme since the Dominion had already taken the Imperial City. All they needed was to break him which they did. Also are you talking about in-game because it seems that no one knows that he gave the Thalmor any info.
They weren't looking for a spy but an agent to destabilize Skyrim. The Thalmor wanted the Markarth Incident to happen since this allowed the Dominion to send in the Thalmor to pursue Talos worshippers and to add even more of a reason for the Stormcloaks to fight against the Empire .
Ulfric killing the High King wouldn't upest the Thalmor since they needed the civil war to weaken the Empire.
This statement is just wrong the Thalmor don't want him dead. They want Ulfric to weaken the Empire with this civil war and they even tried to intervene in order to stop the Empire from killing Ulfric.

Without Ulfric killing the high king in a controversial duel there would be no civil war, so I bet the Thalmor weren't so pissed when it started. Not to mention they can send armored forces as 'observers' while in truth they act as military contractors and agents pursuing Talos worshippers.

I bet Tullius forsaw this when he decided to execute Ulfric immediately rather than sending him to Cyrodil. Only a swift end to the civil war would allow the imperials to concentrate on the Thalmor threat.

Probably the Thalmor didn't anticipate that Ulfric was an ambitious man so, to them, it's much of an asset as a problem. If Ulfric wins too easily, Skyrim may turn into another disastrous Hammerfell. On the other side, with Skyrim at peace they would have no reason to sends agents, the legions would be relocated near the souther borders and people would still secretly worship Talos like many already do.

Jarl Baulgruf is the only competent leader in Skyrim... he has understood every aspect of the war and he's the only one that seems to have the interest of his nation in mind with every decision he takes.

The Thalmor are impossibly arrogant.

They miss that when Ulfric has an independent Skyrim, it'll be against them.

as I understood it they're not going to do anything to end it, and that is their official position on the matter.

the fact that so many of them are carefully arranging ways for it to continue? that's just a happy accident as far as the Thalmor are concerned.

oh, I don't think they've missed that observation at all... I think the real truth is that they underestimate their enemies because they believe their own hype and overestimate themselves.

lol. and Ulfric seems aok with that, really... they Thalmor can underestimate him right up and until his shout finds them unworthy and his blade through their hearts ends their lives.

I don't usually play language police, but the term is "scapegoat." I only bring it up to you because you're so eloquent otherwise. Cheers!

pretty much yes. The Thalmor seem to be taking relatively unseens and indirect methods to ensure one side doesn't have a decisive advantage over the other (at least that's the message conveyed in their Ulfric dossier; the never counted on a Dragonborn though, regardless of which faction he supports in the civil war)

however, I would also speculate that most imperial citizens have a desire to see their blades slide through Thalmor flesh. I know I sure do. Celan has made comments on other threads saying the Empire shouldn't have let the Thalmor build up and take provinces from them. I agree. Had I been there at the time, you can damn well bet the Thalmor wouldn't exist today.

One cool thing is that Tullius indicates the Empire is building up a massive defense force against the Thalmor on the borders. So, yeah, even the Empire is not a paper tiger anymore.

Tullius more or less says that's why they can't crush the Stormcloaks, all of their legions are on the border.

You know, I don't think I've ever heard anyone dispute this point (that the empire is planning to and fully aware that a renewed conflict with the Thalmor is coming). We all seem to be silent until someone disputes a different point or adds a new comment on something else, and we all sem to jump on that and ignore this point.

Yeah, the Empire's military is fully CAPABLE of fighting the Thalmor it seems. It just seems that the politics are MASSIVELY horrible.

* Hammerfall is more or less like the Allies writing off France and shooting the Allies in the foot.

* The Thalmor have free access to the entirety of the Empire, including presence at peace conferences and embassies in smaller countries.

* The Thalmor have pretty much Inquisitional powers to arrest anyone they want.

Given most wars are won actually at the diplomat table, this is a pretty huge flaw. Ironic, this may be one of the few cases where the war WAS lost by not letting the soldiers do what they do best.

Thanks hun! Wrote it at 2 am, so yeah, if I was more awake I would have caught that mistake, heh heh!