Skyrim founded the first empire iirc.

I believe that the Thalmoor wants Ulfric Stormcloak to wind the Skyrim conflict, if you think about: if Stormcloaks win the imperials can't send supplies through Skyrim to Highrock if they were ever attacked. They can't go through Hammerfell, do to it being a desert. With this being the case, The Thalmoor can attack Highrock and the move to reclaim Skyrim after the conflict to continue the search for the Dwemer cavern that runs under the southern portion of Skyrim to find and dismantle the Snow Tower.

From Stormcloak perspective, the empire of Tiber Septim no longer exists. It's mentioned in the history of the 4th era that when the Septim dynasty ended and Mede fought his way to the emperorship, Skyrim accepted him because he had proven himself worthy of the job. The fact that that is mentioned, though, means it wasn't a given that Skyrim was going to accept a new dynasty.

Agreed, it's a different situation since Skyrim was basically the beginnings of the empire. The closest equivalent, I think, is the rebellion of the Germanic tribes at Teutoburger Wald. Germania was occupied territory, but the Cherusci had been made into Roman foederati, one step away from being Roman citizens. The leader of the rebellion was an officer in the Roman legion who turned on them.

As to the OP's question, I think it definitely can be called a civil war, since Nords are fighting Nords. However there is an aspect to it that resembles a foreign occupation- namely that the imperial governor was called in from Cyrodiil, and some of the legions fighting are also from there. Though Skyrim helped found the empire, in practice the Cyrodiils have been acting as a ruling class.

The civil war does not feel like a civil war cause I don't see many frictrions in the population. No imperial/stormcloak marodeurs. Villages aren't threated by both stormcloaks and imperials. The "annoying" point about civil wars is: the war is everywhere. There isn't a clear line. Everyone assumes everyone is a traitor, with many, many innocents killed. Nothing like that in Skyrim.

It's definitely less brutal than I was expecting. You do see people harassing each other for their sympathies one way or the other, though. Dragonbridge citizens mention soldiers extorting from them and threatening to occupy their town. You also have people informing on Talos worshippers and deaths resulting. But in all reality you should see hangings of sympathizers (one way or the other), farms being burnt down, etc. I guess they had to tone it down for a mainstream audience. I mean, the game is already pretty dark.

Nah. The documents you recover from the Thalmor embassy in the course of the main quest make it rather clear that they don't want either side to win. The longer the conflict in Skyrim continues, the more men will die fighting each other instead of the Dominion and the more damage will be done to Imperial/Nordic infrastructure, giving the Dominion more time to recover from the Great War and giving them a better relative position when the war resumes.

The current situation already seriously endangers any supply shipments through Skyrim and you've neglected the (very likely, IMO) possibility that, if Skyrim successfully secedes from the Empire, they could then form at least a temporary alliance to oppose the Aldmeri Dominion. A Stormcloak victory does not automatically mean that the Empire and Skyrim will each stand alone afterward.

It also seems most likely to me that supplies would be sent to High Rock primarily by sea (it's called shipping for a reason), which greatly reduces Skyrim's significance in that area. Just stay friendly enough with Hammerfell to keep them from attacking your convoys en route and you're in decent shape.

No it's a rebellion against the occupation force. There are Nords fighting on both sides but it doesn't make it civil war. The ones on the side of Empire are traitorous ones who have betrayed their own people.

A civil war is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War between organized groups within the same http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic, or, less commonly, between two countries created from a formerly-united nation state. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region, or to change government policies. The term is a calque of the Latin http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bellum_civile which was used to refer to the various http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_civil_wars in the 1st century BC.

So according to wikipedia it's a civil war.


As said before: it's more like Skyrim conquered the land of the empire.

So basically as far as I can recall Tiber Septim won over Skyrim fairly (they were impressed by his shouting), and when the empire was declared to be an empire Skyrim was already part of it, so it was never conquered.

Furthermore the Septim Empire is supposed to be the successor to the empire that Skyrim itself formed right? That's why the Nords were so quick to sign up, they believed they belonged in it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong my lore knowledge isn't the best.

This logic would mean many real-life civil wars wouldn't be civil wars.

In civil-war there are locals fighting each others and they may or may not been supported by forces of outlanders. But if the war is going between locals and outlanders which are supported by some locals you can't call it civil-war anymore.

Skyrim is an imperial province. The imperials are part of it just as much as the nords.

Wikipedia the well known and trusted font of all knowledge relied on by the world greatest academics lol well it must be right then.

Skyrim has been long time part of the Empire but it doesn't change the truth that the land of Skyrim belongs to Nords. It's their national homeland and no foreigner has right to claim it.
For example Finland was 600 years part of Sweden and 100 years part of Russia. The land still belongs to Finns and no other nation has right to claim it.

Come up with a better argument, Wikipedia is spot on in this case.

If you care to look at some of my posts I now have a better understanding of the history between the empire and Skyrim. While still not fully convinced that I would call it a civil war I am now leaning towards accepting it as so. The trouble I had is that being new to TES Skyrim at first seemed to simply be an occupied province of a powerful empire.

Wiki definition.

A civil war is a war between organized groups within the same nation state or republic, or, less commonly, between two countries created from a formerly-united nation state. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region, or to change government policies.

I say Skyrim wars qualify.

Well there are people of Skyrim on both sides of the war, but civil wars are often rebellions. So it's less of a civil war, but I think it still is

that depends on how much the people themselves (Britons, Nords etc.) are divided in my opinion. When it's like 50-50 instead of a minority versus a majorite, then i think it's right to say it's a civilwar. And Skyrim is clearly divided that way. Almost half of the Nords is convinced that they need the empire while the other half doesn't. But again. Stating that Rebellions and Civil Wars are two opposites is wrong in my opinion. they are to tastes of the same cookie, or whatever kind of expression the english language uses haha..

The technicallity of what kind of war it is would seem to me to depend on the outcome, right now its a rebellion. if the stormcloaks win, it's a revolution; if the imperials win, its a civil conflict. It seems to me like its very similar to the american civil war, at least in basic principle: The southern states rebelled and saught independence from the north because they believed their rights were being violated (misguided though this view may have been). It's also similar to the american revolution against the british empire for the very same basic reasons; belief in a set of basic rights and percieved violation of those rights by the ruling body, resulting in rebellion. So really, all three cases are rebellion. the point on which it really hinges is the outcome: The US won, becoming a separate nation, ergo successful rebellion became revolution; the north suppressed the southern rebellion and the conflict gets the civil war label.

lol, on the surface it'a kind of a lesson in american history with all of the nitty gritty details changed. underneath its

Ghost, that's what I was just typing, but you beat me to it D:

lol, took me forever to get that out and i'm still not sure i said what i wanted to say.

I feel the need to add that since the american civil war remained internal and the country came out of it whole and intact, that justifies the civil war label. the american revolution resulted in a new nation forming altogether separate from the empire so it justifies the revolution label.

So to clarify:
It's a rebellion
Stormcloak win = revolution
Empire win = civil war

A Wiki citation involving the specified definition: Nations, Markets, and War: Modern History and the American Civil War, EH.net. "Two nations [within the U.S.] developed because of slavery." October 2006. Retrieved July 2009.

Two nations developed because of slavery translates to "Two nations developed because of a lack of religious freedom."

Right, and if the south had won and been recognized as a separate nation by the north, we wouldn't be calling it the american civil war, we'd be calling it the confederate revolution or some such.

Just gotta say, it seems like its been largely advertised as a civil war from the outset by Bethesda. that would lead me to believe (by my own flawed logic, which is by no means important in the grand scheme of things, lol) that the canon outcome is already decided. I'll just leave it at that

Naturally.