I have seen complaints about how small the cities in Skyrim are, and I have to agree. Although I find the major cities to be beautiful and unique in their own right, despite the sometimes underwhelming size, I also think the lesser towns (Falkreath, Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar) feel rushed, unimaginative, and little different then the already labeled "settlements" in the game.

All of these towns have very interesting lore, and I think the developers did a bit of a disservice to them. Granted, Skyrim is a huge game, and I'm sure they were focused on some of the more major locations in the game. But with a little more development time and planning, I think these cities could have really been something great. And yes, I realize not every city in a province can be a major one, but that is why there are settlements in the game, as well as cities. If given the same attention and depth as the five major cities, it would've taken the game to another level, imo.

Falkreath - Supposedly the city holds the largest cemetery in Skyrim. Needless to say, the 20 or so gravestones proved a bit underwhelming, to say the least. Windhelm has a more developed cemetery than this town. I would have envisioned huge stretches of rolling hills, covered in gravestones. A secret entrance to the DB sanctuary hidden in a mausoleum perhaps? I liked the fact that all of the businesses and buildings incorporated a death-related theme in their names, but other than that there is no distinguished feature of this town. I think the atmosphere could have been different, with creepier npcs and more death related quests having to do with the graveyard, a hidden tomb, etc. Basically, this town would've benefited from a more expansive and interesting graveyard, as well as a darker atmosphere, architecture, etc. to set it apart from the others.

Morthal - This is the capital of the poorest hold in Skyrim. Why does it look like every other town in the game? This place could've been a haven for beggars, low lives, and slums. Yes, I know Riften is supposed to claim that title, but Riften is actually quite nice in the upper parts of the city. I would've envisioned run down shacks, barely able to keep the roof up, nasty npcs, a shifty Jarl and generally a more Bravil-like atmosphere. Instead it looks like every other quaint village in Skyrim. This city could have used a lot more to distinguish it as the poverty-stricken area it claims to be.

Winterhold - I have to give this one some slack, due to the backstory of the disaster that happened explaining its small size, but it doesn't excuse the fact that there is something extremely lacking here. The College of Winterhold, while being a major focal point, does not help the town become a unique location. The college itself is very simple, with only a few areas to explore, which are unfortunately very similar to one another. Where did the remains of the town go? Why are there no ruins, no leftover debris, nothing? It didn't happen so long ago that there is literally nothing below where the city once was. I feel they could've made the ruins an entire sub-section of the city itself, greatly expanding the opportunity to explore the whole reason why the disaster happened in the first place. It's the only center of magic in Skyrim, and I fell that much, much more could've been done with that theme. Again, missed potential here.

Dawnstar - One of the most disappointing towns, in my opinion. Claimed to be one of Skyrim's busiest ports, it falls short of this terribly. The one ship, tiny harbor and few buildings makes the supposedly bustling port town look like it began construction 2 weeks ago. Where are the trade companies, the myriad of dockworkers, the ships, the actual harbor itself? The problem here, as with all of these towns, is that there seems to be no reason for them to even exist, compared to why they're "supposed" to exist. This town could've been spectacular, and it fell flat. Solitude has a busier port, and although it's the capital of Skyrim, the disparity of size is jarring.

Now I'm not saying Bethesda did a bad job on this game. In fact I think it's quite incredible, and have already sunk over 200 hours of play time into it. I really do love this game, and it's only out of passion for it that I make these suggestions, because I want to see this game and series be the best it can be. These opinions are not out of spite, just enthusiasm. I just wish these towns could have been as fleshed out as their larger counterparts, to really give a fantastic connection to the world and it's lore. I would like to know your opinions on the towns, as well as anything you may have found unimpressive or underwhelming.

P.S. I realized that in time, modders will be able to do fantastic things with these towns as they have done in Oblivion, so I'm not worried about seeing these things come to light. In fact, I couldn't be more excited!

That's because they aren't cities they are holds.

I agree with this 100%, and while I too am looking forward to the modding community, it depresses me that Bethesda left it up to them to change them from mediocre to really great, like they could have been. Winterhold, for example, was supposedly once one of the most powerful holds in Skyrim. It's just fine that it's not anymore, but there is literally NO sign that it was that at one point. It feels like Riverwood, not the remnant of a once-great city.

You couldnt be more wrong there. They Aren't holds, they are the main city of their respective hold. You do know theres 9 holds in the game, and only 5 major cities right? Well these other towns are actually the CAPITAL of their respective holds, adding up to a total of 9.
Just like the Rift is a hold that consists of the town Riften and Ivarstead etc. Winterhold is a HOLD that consists of the TOWN of winterhold. See where im going with this?

On main topic though, I agree with the OP. I was really un impressed by dawnstar, i thought that town was going to be super badass, not 6 shacks.

I nominate this for the 'least constructive comment' award, so far. On a side note, I found the OP's post to be well articulated and I particularly agree with the graveyard potential that wasn't reached.

I personally think that Winterhold's falling-into-the-sea thing was something they came up with to be lazy, or cut a corner and not have to do another big city.

Basically in agreement with all of the OP's points though. I think Bethesda, for whatever reason, kind of slacking on the details and depth to make the graphics in general look prettier.

I'm not willing to cut Winterhold any slack, personally. It's suppose to be a big, bustling city. For some reason it didn't make their top 5, though, so they come up with an excuse to make it tiny. Even if I did ignore that, though, it makes no sense to me for it to have the exact same wooden buildings as all the other tiny towns and smaller hold capitals. There is no way that any of the buildings there (other than the College) can be remnants of the old city.

100% Agreed. There are two quests too in Dawnstar, both which you can encounter the first time you step in. One of them is a daedric quest... As for Winterhold, I think the backstory is just an excuse for how small it is. Winterhold was supposed to be highly influenced by Dunmer culture since it's quite close to Morrowind. There's NO recollection of that. Nords seem to hate dark elves, yet they were an important part of Winterhold, not parasites. No one in Windhelms tell you how it's a shame Winterhold sunk, that they would've been welcomed there or anything. It's as if Bethesda wanted to erase the city out of Skyrim. Why do the Nords of Skyrim think the Dunmer would be parasites if they were so important for Winterhold before the tragedy? It's clear all 4 of the cities were meant to be on the same level as the others. Dawnstar and Winterhold were some of the cities I was looking forward most, Dawnstar for being one of the most "nordic" city, and Winterhold for the Dunmer influence as well as being another city "in the snow". People were afraid Skyrim was going to be all snow and mountains, yet there are no true cities in the snow and mountains, except Windhelm. But it feels more like a city fort, not that it's a problem, but you get my point. Well, just see what happened to Sutch for Oblivion. A quest or two was found in the code, even a character who was supposed to live there got put in another city. Instead of putting city ruins or something, they put a ruined fort named Sutch there, yeah right...

My wheels have been turning about how to mod Winterhold since I first set foot there. I have a few mod ideas further up my list, so I imagine several others modders will take their crack at it before I do. I like your idea of having ruins in the ocean. And those three decrepit houses could have been rebuilt with very little effort on the Jarl's part. I wouldn't be surprised to see a dozen or so mods for each hold, each with a different vision.

Of course, there is a danger of TOO MUCH civilization. Part of the appeal of Skyrim are the vast expanses of harsh wilderness. I think I would prefer seeing existing settlements expanded, rather than dozens of new towns popping up all over the landscape.

I agree 100% on this, I was disapointed by Winterholds back story with no evidence to back it up, if it was really the seat of power where are the remnents of the place? Sure there's a few destroyed houses but that means nothing, where's the walls that protected the town? Why are there no beggars? Or ruins in the sea? I think there was a miscomunication with the team that led to this, so you can't blame the entire team for failing on some of the minor towns.

And to be honest even the "cities" are rather unimpressive.

Good points on the cities. I will eventually buy Skyrim on PC, I'm sure, so I can experience these places once modders get a hold of them.

I love the game, but I agree with you - there were a lot of opportunities missed with regard to these towns. I would have liked to see explorable crypts (with related quests) in Falkreath, more grime and grot in Morthal with more evidence of poverty (as it is it just looks like a pretty little village with no seedier side whatsoever), Dawnstar centered around a much larger dock with some quests relating to trade or piracy, and even if Winterhold had been mostly destroyed, shouldn't the architecture of the remaining buildings and ruins have been much grander than wooden shacks? And how on earth does a town with one private home support a merchant, it doesn't look as though it would get much passing trade as it isn't on a route to anywhere else other than the College. The Tavern makes sense as all the college tutors are obviously complete lushes, I often run into them returning to the college en masse after an evening of drinking!

I agree, although I hardly think Skyrim could suffer from "too much" civilization, because the amount of wilderness is massive - but there's no reason the existing cities can't be expanded and improved upon. I mean, this is an entire country we're talking about - the cities and capitals should reflect more of a population then a few people. Sure, Skyrim isn't as developed as other provinces, but it shouldn't seem like there's only 200 people living there.

I'm currently working on an expansion and revamp of Dawnstar and have some plans for Falkreath as well, all complete with new architecture.

Looking forward to it!

what does winterhold have, like 1 tavern, 1 store, and the jarl's house? replace jarls house with farmhouse and you have ivarstead. hell, ivarstead even has a ruined house across the way that could be its own college. and a barrow... wow, is ivarstead actually bigger than winterhold? that right there is inexcusable.

good thing they arent walled, modders should have free reign to make them as big as they want. the cities of skyrim are pathetically small as it is, but i should not be able to compare a major city with the 4 buildings that make up ivarstead.

Ivarstead has more industry than Winterhold, the hold, and it's one village.

yeah the cities in this game were pretty lacking. even more so then oblivion

So I found some pictures to help illustrate my point, and to give a better idea of what these cities really needed...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/ghost_dance/3265769489_cb524a6d28.jpg
^ Much more variety and quantity of gravestones. Statues of the divines are sorely needed as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/ghost_dance/dsc_4360_q4.jpg
^ Although not exactly the right climate, this is what Morthal should look like more or less. A shanty town standing over the swamps, giving contrast from the regal Solitude towering above it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/ghost_dance/cliffside-village-manarola.jpg
^ Again, not exactly the climate, but the idea of a city hanging on for dear life while the rest of it has crashed in the ocean. The current version gives no clues as to what happened.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v428/ghost_dance/fill.jpg
^ Think this, but on a grander scale. The Vikings (which much of the Nord culture is based on) had a massive economy based on ships and sea trade. Dawnstar should reflect this!

Anyway, as I've said, I can't wait to see what modders do with these cities. It's just a shame that it couldn't have been there in the original game.

I agree 100% percent with the OP. Even the major cities need some work.

I couldn't agree more! I felt really let down by Bethesda on this, it just seems lazy that they did not put any effort into these cities, despite their alleged "uniqueness". They look like every other cookie cutter village in the game! There is a REASON they are the capitals, and villages are villages. Winterhold is literally awful, I almost threw up when I first saw it!

Me too man, I was expecting a huge, multi-tiered city full of knowledge and epicness, until I saw the little hamlet. I understood the back-story, but comon! Put some ruins down there, they could have been an entire sub-section of the city!

Personally, I didnt think it was lazy, but it seems obviously cut due to time constraints.
Well, at least they made a reason why it is so small, even if it unstatisfactory because you cant do any research into the cause.
Its not like Sutch, which was just gone.

My theory is that its going to be in DLC that takes you back in time.

Well...

Apart from the fact that most of this probably comes down to development budget and technical constraints, I don't agree with all of these assessments of the cities in question.

Morthal is the capital of the poorest hold, but that doesn't mean it's an impoverished hold. It's more "frontier poor" than "slum" - the latter happens when you have both ingrained poverty and a high population density (like Riften).

I also feel that the satirical spin that Falkreath's people put on their reputation is a much better approach than portraying them all as morbid and angsty. Places IRL with major cemeteries (like Flanders) don't all do that.

--

Winterhold, on the other hand... while it wouldn't suit this particular locale, I can't help but think of New Magincia in Ultima 9; left in ruins (statuary everywhere, in particular) but the bits and pieces of the place were still architecturally distinct and somehow managed to hint at the glory they once held.

While it's possible that trade has simply shifted to Solitude in the intervening time, Dawnstar does seem to lack any distinguishing character.