What the heck are the MPL-C and MPL-P? Well, frankly, I don't yet know. (I apologize now for the wall of text and the fact that I'm not a highly seasoned contributor to the forums yet. I hope some will contribute to this thread anyway.)

Here's the idea. The Modders Public License - Cathedral and Modders Public License - Parlor

I'm too new to the modding scene here to claim to have an answer. But I've been watching with fascination, and then horror, at the ongoing saga around copyright. This is not a thread to debate what is right, what has come before, or any specific mod, modder, or situation. PERIOD. EVEN ONE BREATH OF THAT DRAMA WILL BE INSTANTLY REPORTED.

So let's just let it remain in the threads devoted to it.

ITT I want to talk about HOW TO GO FORWARD and HOW TO HEAL THE RIFT.

From what I can see there are basically two camps, and they do break down into the Parlor/Cathedral groups. Neat. I'd not heard of that before today. The questions of etiquette and politeness and fair use and copyright and so on are all subjective, and so what I propose are a couple of guiding public licenses that cater to the two general groups, and which SPECIFICALLY address the issues related to modding, which seem to be quite unique in some cases.

For me, particularly, there is the philosophical view that we have all come to the modding scene through the open-sourcing of creative works produced by Bethesda and it is for me THE RIGHT THING TO DO to allow others to benefit now from MY contribution to the "cathedral." But just because that's MY opinion doesn't mean everyone should have to agree. I propose these two licenses as a potential for accommodating two very different points of view in a single space. We all are gratified by the creative works of others, whether or not they allow us to freely modify those works. I believe that it's better to accommodate these different viewpoints in the space, rather than insist that one group be right.

So I want to ask what others think of this idea, and what they would like to see as a part of those public license agreements. What would each one need to contain to make it meaningful to the modding community? I assume the more restrictive of the two - the MPL-P would be the "default" but it might be seen even as a badge of honor to have put your work into the MPL-C category. If users wished, they could release their work under the MPL-P license until they had completed their "multi-part saga" and having once done so, then re-release it under the MPL-C. Or not.

Sites like Nexus could easily have a filter set to specify which license the mod is released under. If a user releases under their own license, or other licenses, fine. The filters built into community sites though would probably be limited to these. Why? Because they're designed for and by the modding community. That's how I envision it anyway. Something that doesn't require everyone to agree in order to get everyone on the same page.

Again, this is to ask about how to move forward and what to do to answer these questions and how to get people working together so that the creative processes can resume without the hindrance of this legal debate raging on forever without a clear framework for resolving conflicts.

I think I'd also add that the legal system - courts, and such - are not the place to resolve this issue. Why? Because as many have pointed out, any legitimate claim to a violation of copyright is still only a technical one, which doesn't carry a demonstrable harm to a commercial viability of one's product as we aren't allowed to sell them or make money off them. So the courts won't address the issue where there is no claim to harm. Anyone who wants to make that claim with the aid of some very pricey lawyers would probably be doing the community a favor by making sure these issues get defined legally but short of that, we are probably much better off to fix this ourselves rather than asking a judge or judges to do so several years from now.

After all, is that really the direction the community wants to go? Turning the modding scene for TES into a legal battle with modders fighting each other and no one ever having much fun in the process? I don't think so.

I think we might be able to veer away from that if we could agree to adopt some self-governing guidelines that are widely accepted, community created and supported, and which allow modders to safely and clearly assert their rights over their work. Part of what makes moderation difficult is a lack of definitive answers and a veritable ocean of passionate opinions about what constitutes violation. Adopting and self-imposing such guidelines would facilitate moderation attempts by all hosting sites such as Nexus, SteamWorkshop, and others.

Thoughts?

There aren't any legal battles going on, a very small number of users are having a Dumb Argument about copyright and requiring a license would either A ) kill modding or B ) Not change anything at all.

Besides, they're just mods. Little bits of code that are effect games. Anyone who gets so worked up about their "PRECIOUS MOD " really need to get some perspective. It's not like modders are a precious, irreplaceable commodity.

I... Wh....

I mean, technically what he said is true so...

Why don't you come back when you've made your own mods, will you? I won't hold my breath.

I think all of the moderators died... Some of the things being said is basically just entirely slandering modding and the people who do it. And while it's fine to have those opinions stating them how you do is just uncalled for...

If you guys think modding and modders dont matter why the hell are you even here posting in these threads?

Whether or not someone mods doesn't intellectually invalidate what they have to say.

While I think that could be said for maybe simple texture replacers that just simply tint contrast or somesuch.. I have seen a lot of modders and mod IDEAs that are irreplaceable. Like it or not, it's the people that think of those that matter.. and without that individual, many of those mods would never be thought of or created. Unique ideas need to be respected.

I know that personally if my mods were getting reuploaded and put under another person's name, and if it went "unpunished" or unrecognized in the community that it was happening.. i would simply stop making my mods. It just wouldn't be worth it. I'm sure many people in the community would be negatively affected in an environment that doesn't enforce (even lightly) copyright and/or crediting. The ripper probably can't actually do the hard work to further the mod that he ripped off, which means the mod is dead. Crediting benefits everyone.

On the same note, as a modder, i think it's silly to deny another person the ability to mod your mod (as long as he credits you, of course). It just halts creativity.

His entire post is just slander and has no basis. He's essentially calling everything morally fine, including piracy, thievery, and more, because all it is is people's time used to make or obtain something, is it not? Just a car, right? Few pieces of metal? Just took them a few thousand hours to get it, no biggie. Oh, that game you are selling for $60 took a team several years to make? Not worth anything, because it was just a few years of effort.

Same line of thought. Exact same line of thought.

Edit: Leviathan stated it more succinctly and quite a bit more politely.

Anybody actually have any on topic thoughts?

Anyone can make a mod. Everyone has thousands of ideas. Modders and "Idea Guys" are not irreplaceable at all.

There's a difference between someone claiming your work as their own and someone creating a mod that is somewhat similar or a mod that affects yours.

Anyone at all with an on topic comment.

You're comparing a video game mod being reuploaded elsewhere or edited to stealing a car. Do you honestly not see how silly that is?

Wow one troll making the first post can really throw off a thread. I'm pretty sure the OP said he did not want this argument on his thread.


Honestly until Beth can step in and give modders some form of rights to go off of and back them up, i dont think this will ever be resolved

Okay, you know what, between the reports, the tone and the level of discourse thus far, this thread is not going well. I am locking if for now.