Link to the original (?) thread discussing it here

http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/

Disclaimer: I in no way discovered this. This was from the hard work of others.



THIS POST IS AN ATTEMPT TO TRANSLATE AND UNDERSTAND THESE RUNES, I'VE STARTED TO UNDERSTAND THE "EVENTS" AND EXPLAIN THEM IN THIS http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c39wpky
How to interpret the following:
Translation guide used: http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html Rune 1 Rune 2 Rune 3 Definition Definition Definition
Interpretation
Rune letters(letter) in form of a word
Bee Jar Thurisaz(TH: Thorn or a Giant.) Hagalaz: (H: Hail.) Merkstave Nauthiz(N: Need) Merkstave Reactive force, directed force of destruction and defense, conflict. Instinctual will, vital eroticism, regenerative catalyst. A tendency toward change. Catharsis, purging, cleansing fire. Male sixuality, fertilization. (Thorr, the Thunder god, was of Giant stock.) Wrath of nature, destructive, uncontrolled forces, especially the weather, or within the unconscious. Tempering, testing, trial. Controlled crisis, leading to completion, inner harmony. Hagalaz Merkstave (Hagalaz cannot be reversed, but may lie in opposition): Natural disaster, catastrophe. Stagnation, loss of power. Pain, loss, suffering, hardship, sickness, crisis. Constraint of freedom, distress, toil, drudgery, laxity. Necessity, extremity, want, deprivation, starvation, need, poverty, emotional hunger.
Force of destruction - Controlled crisis leading to completion/Natural Disaster or catastrophe - Constraint of freedom
THUN
Butterfly Jar Wunjo (W or V: Joy.) Isa (I: Ice) Merkstave Wunjo (W or V: Sorrow.) Merkstave Joy, comfort, pleasure. Fellowship, harmony, prosperity. Ecstasy, glory, spiritual reward, but also the possibility of going "over the top". If restrained, the meaning is general success and recognition of worth. A challenge or frustration. Psychological blocks to thought or activity, including grievances. Standstill, or a time to turn inward and wait for what is to come, or to seek clarity. This rune reinforces runes around it. Stultification, sorrow, strife, alienation. Delirium, intoxication, possession by higher forces, impractical enthusiasm. Raging frenzy, berzerker.
Could very well mean the opposition of Joy and Sorrow opposed or augmented by "Isa", or represent duality of good and evil?
VIV, WIV, WIW, or VIW
Dragonfly Jar Nauthiz: (N: Need.) Merkstave Ehwaz (E: Horse, two horses.) Laguz: (L: Water, or a leek.) Constraint of freedom, distress, toil, drudgery, laxity. Necessity, extremity, want, deprivation, starvation, need, poverty, emotional hunger. Transportation. May represent a horse, car, plane, boat or other vehicle. Movement and change for the better. Gradual development and steady progress are indicated. Harmony, teamwork, trust, loyalty. An ideal marriage or partnership. Confirmation beyond doubt the meanings of the runes around it. Flow, water, sea, a fertility source, the healing power of renewal. Life energy and organic growth. Imagination and psychic matters. Dreams, fantasies, mysteries, the unknown, the hidden, the deep, the underworld. Success in travel or acquisition, but with the possibility of loss.
NEL
Constraint of freedom - Transportation - Dreams, the unknown, possibility of loss
Moth Jar Mannaz: (M: Man, mankind.) Nauthiz: (N: Need) Merkstave The Self; the individual or the human race. Your attitude toward others and their attitudes towards you. Friends and enemies, social order. Intelligence, forethought, create, skill, ability. Divine structure, intelligence, awareness. Expect to receive some sort of aid or cooperation now. Constraint of freedom, distress, toil, drudgery, laxity. Necessity, extremity, want, deprivation, starvation, need, poverty, emotional hunger.
Distress of mankind
MN
Torchbug Jar Sowilo: (S: The sun.)Eihwaz: (EI: Yew tree.) Merkstave Ehwaz: (E: Horse, two horses.) Merkstave Hagalaz: (H: Hail.) Merkstave Nauthiz: (N: Need) Merkstave Eihwaz Reversed or Merkstave: Confusion, destruction, dissatisfaction, weakness. Ehwaz Reversed or Merkstave: This is not really a negative rune. A change is perhaps craved. Feeling restless or confined in a situation. Reckless haste, disharmony, mistrust, betrayal. Wrath of nature, destructive, uncontrolled forces, especially the weather, or within the unconscious. Tempering, testing, trial. Controlled crisis, leading to completion, inner harmony. Hagalaz Merkstave (Hagalaz cannot be reversed, but may lie in opposition): Natural disaster, catastrophe. Stagnation, loss of power. Pain, loss, suffering, hardship, sickness, crisis. Constraint of freedom, distress, toil, drudgery, laxity. Necessity, extremity, want, deprivation, starvation, need, poverty, emotional hunger.
EIEHN
False Goals - Betrayal/Misguidedness - Catastrophe/Natural Disaster - Distress
Puts on wizard hat
ALLRIGHT. Let's do this, lets get some damn meaning out of those runes. To understand what I'm talking about, read this http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c39wpky that I wrote last night.
While the meaning of those runes are vague as [censored], I will make an attempt to get something out of this.
All these runes seem to be pointing or prophesying the events that are currently happening on Nirn and it relates to the Thalmor that want to destroy the world in order to reunite with the divine (read the post linked above), and the distress of men and pending doom. These runes lead me to believe that the Thalmor are pursuing glory and ascension, but are in reality are misguided and cause a catastrophe that leads to the end time. If you take a look at the torchbug jar[indent]
Destruction - Betrayal/Misguidedness - Catastrophe/Natural Disaster - Distress[/indent]
The "sequence of events" seems clear enough. Now taking a look a the dragonfly jar[indent]
Constraint of freedom - Transportation - Dreams, the unknown, possibility of loss[/indent]
The Thalmor(being altmer and being a "purer" race - living longer) are obviously power hungry, and considering themselves above all men and most other mer, and they are seeking freedom from Mundus (the plane of Nirn), the rune clearly indicates that this need for freedom fuels their plans to take down the Eight towers which will destroy Nirn and transport them/free them to the realm of gods while stating possibility of loss (killing all men and mer) which explains the Moth Jar[indent]
Distress of mankind[/indent]
Very well. And also the Bee Jar:[indent]
Force of destruction - Controlled crisis leading to completion/Natural Disaster or catastrophe - Constraint of freedom[/indent]
That seem to describe the events following the destruction of the eight towers (**Might I remind you that the Throat of the World (Snow-Throat) is the only one still standing THUS EXPLAINING THE THALMOR'S INTEREST IN SKYRIM and their interest in the Magnus dillemma which also involves the Psijic order (seemingly good guys) who can control the flow of time and are badasses in general.
That leads us to the last jar,[indent]
Opposition of Joy and Sorrow opposed or augmented by "Isa", or represent duality of good and evil?[/indent]
I'm not quite sure about this one, but it could seem as if it could signify the possible clash between the Psijic Order and the Thalmor, which explains the Thalmor being ignorant and misguided in relation to the Psijic. The Thalmor clearly outlaw the Psijic Order, mainly out of fear and ignorance, it is also clear to note that from the books/reports of the Psijic in the books of skyrim (can also be seen on http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Psijic_Order ) states that:[indent]
Over the past thousand years, only seventeen new initiates were brought into the order. In the past two years, however, another thirty have joined.[/indent]
Which hints at some serious mother [censored] [censored] going down
Put down wizard hat
EDIT: Thanks to InvadeKamchatka for pointing out mistakes
EDIT #2: There's a LOT of possible meanings behind these translations, I think they are * mostly* correct, but I need help with interpreting them in terms of locations/ritual
EDIT #3: Updates on additional hidden meanings http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/c3a25c4, what do you guys think?

From the translation this conclusion is drawn, from original (?) post http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37245&start=30 :

The Thalmor, the body of Altmer who direct the Aldmeri Dominion, are the "man behind the man" of Skyrim, the "Big Bad" that manipulates events from behind the scenes. The rightful king and queen of the Summerset Isles? Murdered by the Thalmor. Ulfric Stormcloak, the "rebel" who wants freedom from the Empire and to ascend to the throne of Skyrim (granted, he used the Voice to stun the king of Skyrim and then killed him, which is technically murder and regicide)? He was a Thalmor agent. The Thalmor, led by the Altmer, are playing the Empire against the Stormcloaks, because if they can weaken both of them enough before the Empire can pull itself together to oppose them (potentially spawning a Shezzarine - see below), then they can sweep through and conquer both, and then complete their ultimate plan, as follows (laid out by the Altmer):

"To kill Man is to reach Heaven, from where we came before the Doom Drum's iniquity. When we accomplish this, we can escape the mockery and long shame of the Material Prison.

To achieve this goal, we must:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit."

To translate this:

1) The Thalmor are attempting to completely ban Talos worship. Tiber Septim mantled Lorkhan and melded with the Underking/Ysmir and Zurin Arctus into the new Lorkhan, being Talos. He is the +1 Divine, not a part of the original Eight Aedra who became the Earth Bones, but instead fills the void left by Lorkhan/Shor/Shezzar. Remember, the original Lorkhan is dead. His body or "flesh-divinity" was sundered into two halves (the moons Masser and Secunda - yes, those two moons are literally the corpse of a zombie god; fun fact, the sun and stars are holes poked in Mundus from Aetherius), and his Heart was thrown to rest within Red Mountain (also Red Tower, the Heart of Lorkhan being the Stone that is key to the Tower). Talos is effectively the greatest enemy of the Altmer/Thalmor. To the Altmeri, Lorkhan/Shor/Shezzar is not the beneficent creator deity that Man and Beast races attribute to him, but the reason that they lost their link to the divine, becoming trapped within the Mundus and bound to the cycle of the Dreamsleeve and the Earth Bones.

Talos' presence within divinity as the +1 of the Eight is as close as has been gotten to a resurrection of Lorkhan. The only one who would be closer is the Champion of Cyrodiil. The Champion Mantled* both Sheogorath and the Divine Crusader. Sheogorath (the Sithis-shaped hole in the Mundus that Jyggalag fell into) is representative of Lorkhan's sundered divine spark (his Heart, in other words). The Divine Crusader is representative of his physical incarnation as the Champion of Man and a subsoul of Sithis (remember, Lorkhan is the benevolent creator deity to Man, because he is the reason they exist). So in essence, the Champion represents the two sundered halves of Lorkhan, making him the closest being yet seen to a full resurrection of the Doom Drum.

Now, stopping all worship of him probably wouldn't affect Talos all that much, since Tiber-Septim-As-Talos (after Mantling Lorkhan and melding with Zurin Arctus and Ysmir/the Underking in his apotheosis to full godhood) was able to achieve that state known as CHIM. But CHIM has a lot of funny notions associated with it, so it's likely that he wouldn't bother trying to stop them. All they might do is prevent him from incarnating (maybe). Possessing CHIM, he now exists above and beyond the confines of the Mundus and indeed beyond the Godhead that dreams the entire TES setting. But erasing him or minimising his influence is still a nice start.

2) As an extension of this there is the Shezzarine. A Shezzarine is a mortal Champion of Man, and is representative of Lorkhan. The Shezzarine can be the result of a Mantling of Lorkhan or perhaps as an Incarnation (following the cobblestones of drawn-bone destiny), but is a Champion of Man nonetheless, regardless of what their race might actually be. Whenever a Shezzarine shows up, the Altmer absolutely hate it, because it is representative of what binds them to the Mundus. If Man can be erased from reality (literally - they want to erase Man from reality itself) then the Shezzarine will not appear, for the Shezzarine is a Champion of Man. No Man means there is nobody to be the Champion of, or so some of their reasoning goes.

3) The last and ultimate goal, to unbind the Dragon. The Dragon is Akatosh/Alduin/Auri-El, the soul of Anui-El, that aspect of Anu which exists in opposite to Padomay. For this one, you need to understand that in the competition between Akatosh/Alduin/Auri-El and Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor, the result became that the Ur-Tower, Ada-Mantia, the Adamantium Tower, was the first unassailable spike of reality that was the Mundus, the Stone of the Tower being the Moment of Creation. Akatosh/Alduin/Auri-El became this spike of reality, and became Nirn. Also realise that Akatosh/Alduin/Auri-El is Time, creating the flow, and Lorkhan provides the Padomaic force that stabilises it, directs it. In following him, many other spirits were also bound, among them the Mer (including Altmer, Chimer-later-Dunmer, and so on).

The existence of the Ur-Tower, Ada-Mantia, also means that this is a stabilising effect on space-time. A number of later Towers were also assembled. They are Crystal-Like-Law (on Summerset Isle), Red Tower (Red Mountain on Vvardenfell), Tree-Sap (moves around in Valenwood), Orchalc, White-Gold (in Cyrodiil), Brass Tower (Numidium, Walks-Like-Brass, Big Stompy Robot), Khajit, and Snow-Throat (in Skyrim).

As of TESV, Crystal-Like-Law has been destroyed (Oblivion Crisis), Red Tower is deactivated (the Stone - the Heart of Lorkhan - has been freed per the events of Morrowind), Tree-Sap is potentially deactivated or at least not walking around (the Bosmer are influenced by the Thalmor, and they'd want to deactivate it if possible), Orchalc is destroyed (back with Yokuda), White-Gold is deactivated (the Amulet of Kings served as the key, and it is no longer active), Brass Tower (cast out of Time, doing something weird, but then it breaks time every time you turn it on, so that's understandable), Khajit Tower probably shut down (the Khajit are vassals of the Thalmor, and if they are indeed the Stone of their own Tower as per the Lunar Lattice then their Tower is also deactivated), and Snow-Throat (still active).

Each of these Towers, like the Ur-Tower, serve to stabilise the bubble of Mundus and keep it from dissolving. You can think of them as literally the pillars that hold up reality. By the time of Skyrim, there are potentially as few as one (maybe two counting Brass Tower) of these Towers still active. That's why the Thalmor/Altmer are so interested in Skyrim, and in damaging the Empire's attempts to keep it peaceful. If they can break it, or break the Stone that binds Snow-Throat Tower, then they can bring down what is effectively the last pillar.

Then, they will be free to fully unbind the Dragon. Mundus will dissolve, everything within it will cease to exist. Except for the Altmer and other "divine spirits" who were originally bound with the binding of Lorkhan. They will be freed, resuming the connection to the divine that they possessed before Time.

The price is only the utter erasure of every other living thing (body and soul), and the obliteration of the material plane itself.

So ultimately, no. The Altmer are not good. Some individuals among them are (e.g. Chancellor Ocato from Oblivion), but as a whole they need to be dealt with, because their views on cosmology and reality are unhealthy for everybody else except for the Mer.

* Mantling is a concept in TES Lore. Basically, walk like them until they walk like you. In other words, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. By Mantling somebody, becoming so like them that there is no differentiation between them and you, you become them. However, you remain you, and they remain them. Except they are also you, and you are also them. But you aren't now them, because you remain you, and there is just more of you to go around now.

They concived the translated half of your post just from the Jars? since it is known by a good chunk of people who cared to look ;o

A bees sting is a force of destruction, and large swarm of bees sort of form a small natural disaster
Butterflys often bring Joy as they are quite Purty when they flutter bye
A Dragon fly looks very free the way it just hovers about

Nothing odd there, just a symbolic meaning of each critter.

This last part sounds a lot like something Sheogorath would say. You sure your not him?

No no no no, you have it wrong. Sheogorath is you but you as all. All is one as one being all. The concept we are all him and all one but also all!

Understand?

Great work! Figuring this all out must have been time intensive, do you think Bethesda will explore this lore in DLC's for Skyrim?

Never heard of mantling before. TES got some weird stuff going on in it. lol

Wow. It's pretty much what I discovered from just playing through the main quest, but I have to say... fan-effin'-tastic, vicknoda.


Though, I don't think that all Altmer are evil, or even most. I think there are just a select few horrible people contorting the minds of others (as people do in reality) and making them believe in the Thalmor.

Epic wall'o'text, still, interesting to read. TES lore is really something.

Seriously, Mundus with all its inhabitants, their lives, conflicts, guilds, countries and politics is just a playground for a bunch of bored superior beings who, to say it plain, don't differ much in terms of wisdom from common mortals.


UPD ... whatever.

Is it possible that these so called runes mean nothing exciting? Perhaps they are referring to the bugs, or describing them. It could be possible that the runes ARE the Easter egg and that is as far as this mystery goes.

I know some will fail to accept this, and would never dare stop searching for the "secret of all secrets" . I above all people would love for it to go a lot deeper than that, but every post I read on this seems to stretch extremely far when trying to make connections. Nothing so far has even seemed remotely accurate as far as the conspiracy theories go, its all more speculation than facts.

I hope that this Is something big, but people should also prepare for it turning out to be nothing of particular interest. It may even be some relation to some of the developers. Who knows. Good luck guys.

A lot of strands were pulled from someone's bum(s).

It's funny when people can talk about a game's details to the point that they come across as the rantings of a paranoid schizophrenic.

Indeed to go from bugs in a jar with symbols of joy, disaster etc, and conect it with the thalmor conspiracy to wipe out non-althmer from the ES universe is just...

You've started off with some random etchings that look remarkably like new latin fonts

...From that you have transliterated them using a psuedo-recreation of a germanic font type (Not nordic).

...Each word has multiple hazy meanings, so you've taken the meaning that is closest to what you want them to mean.

...Then you have re-arranged the groups of meanings to fit in a sequence that best fits the storyline

...Then you have transliterated them AGAIn, into a more readable version of English, contrasting it delibratly with the known storyline.




Do you remember as a kid where someone'd be like "think of a number; add 10, divide by 7" and so on and - wow, it's magic they can predict what number you chose!. Well it's the same deal, if you procesa and reprocess something enough you can squeeze any theory to fit any evidence because you have diluted the original content and kept adding your own expectations to the results


http://i40.tinypic.com/b5fo00.jpg

all this derived from the few runes (5 or so) under the insect-jar lids???? i want what this guy was smoking !!!!!!!

Lots of text about the marking, but no images of them.
Do you have the images anywhere - or details of where these items are?
I can read Old Norse Runestones (the language as well as the Runes) so could help you understand exactly what they say.

Check Ryuujin_0 link, just above your post.

Anybody know the names of the some of the key developers? I wonder if those "runes" could just be their scrawled initials.

http://i40.tinypic.com/b5fo00.jpg

I dunno... seems way more simple and much more likely.

That's what I was thinking. Lmao, think of the wave of dissapointment this would bring to so many people! That's why i feel it is important for people to not get out of hand with their theories and expectations.

Once upon a time, there was a game called cod- world at war and a zombies map named Der reise. For over a year people obsessed over speculation of a secret, ultra hidden Easter egg the likes of which we had never seen before. There were secret weapons supposedly unlocked by a series of absolutely insane Easter eggs and steps needed to obtain them. This drove the gaming population crazy, quote literally.

In the end it was explained to have been a type-o, a mistake. There really was no secret. Except the developers refused to confirm it. I'm pretty sure there are people to this day that believe something Is hidden there...

I'm betting Douglas Kemper Trimble and Peter Isaac Graham are laughing their asses off.

(i made that up)

Cheers.

There are gibberish.
They are not Runes, but 'Rune like markings'

They contain a number of markings that can be read as runes but only with a large degree of non standard usage and mixed runic alphabets, and are mixed in with other characters that cannot be read as runes.
My conclusion is that they are not runic, but Rune like. Any that can be read as a rune is coincidence and not determinative of their phonetic value.

Examples:
The Bee jar has a similar but none runic D symbol, a K similar to the Elder Futhark K but not quite right. and a symbol that could be a backwards N or later Viking period A rune.
Butterfly jar gives us an Elder w rune, or a very bad TH rune. An I rune and what resembles a backwards B rune but with a bit missing.
Torchbug gives us a Z symbol carved in a way that the only coresponding Rune (a backwards S rune) would not be carved - so not runic. The W is not a runic symbol, and the K and last Runic symbol are discussed above.
The W like symbol in the Dragonfly jar lid is not a runic character at all. The L like character is like the Runic L but upside down and backwards. the last one does match a Runic character.
The Moth has an Elder Futhark E rune (the M) and what is either a backwards N rune, or a Youger Viking A rune.

What symbols could be interprated as Runes are of dubious form - backwards, none standard forms and mixed Futhark alphabets etc.
Taken as whole it is gibberish, for it it be Runic all must make sense as a cohesive whole. The symbols should be treat as Rune like, and not runic.

Sorry but you can't use the Runes to make any sense out of those inscriptions.
There are often stuff in games that are Runic, or at least use real Runic futharks or Tolkiens Runes etc. Just not these lids.


Edit:
That is not to say they don't use some alphabet, or have meaning.
But that they do not use any Runic Alphabet.

To me it looks more like a scratch/claw based script in style - Khajits or some other clawed race maybe?

Someone been hitting the skooma again?

Seriously, that guy practically built a religion out of it. Talk about reading way too much into things...