Alright, I participated awhile back on a thread about how much of a waste lockpicking is. I took the "it's a complete waste" side fully but now in the end game I felt the need to come back and recant but the thread apparently reached the limit.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1368268-lockpicking-minigame-too-easyskill-worthless/page__fromsearch__1

Basically, unless you keep a special pick you get for a quest (purposefully vague for spoiler purposes) then this skill is a significant time saver. I simply can't leave a master locked chest just sitting there and even at the 100 lockpicking skill the master lock takes a number of tries to find and even once the area is found a hair of difference can fail the attempt.

With the perks running up the chain I basically just run through chests and my dungeon delving has taken so much less time. The sweet spot is typically near the starting point and more often than not it's exactly in the starting point.

So, yes, the perks are worthless for getting you anything you couldn't already get eventually (especially while picks are found all over the place), but it save you as a gamer real time which kinda makes the perk better than the other ones. Besides, at this point I'm set in my ways as far as how I'm going to fight and there's no where else to put the perks that I'd really care about. Building up my combat or magic slots further at this point would only make the end game even less of a challenge which isn't saying much with my super stealth and one shot bow kills obtained through normal leveling and no enchant cheats.

Edit: By the way, it's really disappointing that I feel the need to use up perks just so I don't waste time on something I have to do often.

I've all ways thought lockpicking was a good skill to perk,at least for role playing reasons.
For thieves and assassins it make total sence that they are good at lockpicking.
Also the treasure hunter perk can help you get some good weapons and armor that you wouldn't otherwise get if your not into smithing or enchanting.

However since lockpicking doesn't help you stay alive or kill your enemies it is a skill that should only be perked when you don't meet requirements for more important skill perks.
That makes lockpicking a late game skill to put perks into.

What side do you fall on beating dead horses? Wait that would be a yes.

Actually, I've become practiced enough at lockpicking that I can pick any lock, very quickly, without putting anything into the perk tree at all.
I consider this a major mistake on the part of bethesda. One should have to have the skill necessary to pick a lock of given difficulty or it becomes unassailable - just like in Fallout 3 and NV.

If you have enough lockpicks, any lock can be picked at any level (provided it doesn't need a key). And with enough practice it shouldn't take more than ten lockpicks to unlock the hardest lock. Much like Speech, there are some good perks on Lockpick tree but by the time your skill is high enough to get them, you likely have enough sources of income through crafting or just plain have enough money so that you don't need them.

I agree wholeheartedly on this point. It's pretty much at the heart of the matter.. You don't HAVE to.. but by the time you do, it's unnecessary. My wife is currently on another play through and has already decided she's going to perk out this tree. Perhaps I'll see the benefit of it as it develops, but for now... I'll just keep picking them without the perks.

I started a thief/assassin type character earlier this week with the intention of putting a few perks in lockpicking, but so far I've avoided it entirely. I've already found a necklace that makes lockpicking 20% easier, and normally I can get through a master chest in around 5-10 picks.

Lockpicking in the vanilla game is really, really derp.

Its supposed to be a fun lil minigame. just allows us to do another one of those cool things we cant do in real life.

What? I can pick locks. There's literally nothing to it if you've ever seen a professional do it. When I was 10 I found a lockpick kit on the sidewalk (I can only speculate what the previous owner was doing with it) and took it home. A week later my 75 year old neighbor had locked himself out of his house. I had him back inside in about the time it took me to crack my first master lock in game and I didn't even bend my real pick whereas in game it took 10 or more. This was my first attempt and what's dumb is that the pick in game is actually what you use to turn the lock whereas the weird little shiv the game uses to turn the lock (a magic shiv that isn't in your inventory by the way) is actually what you use to... "jiggle" the tumblers in real life. So the game mimics it backwards. Let's also face it, you can tell if you're pulling something so hard it's about to break, the character you play is just a jerk that punishes you for getting something wrong. I'd never pull on a pick so hard it'd break. If you have to pull like that then you haven't jimmy'd the tumblers right.

There's also other methods of lock picking. Such as just breaking the lock by shoving a key sized piece of steel through the lock.

That's just it, the only point is saving time. Really, at the end of the game it doesn't even matter what perks I place where. I have more than ten completely expendable perks that would not help me out in even the slightest. I guess the main reason for that is that I'm not a magic user.

So it's either I throw some perks away on something I don't use or I put it on something I use multiple times in every single dungeon I enter that have become master or expert locks more than novice or otherwise. In this scenario it makes sense. But only because I can't pass on unopened chests. The fact is, at this point in the game I'm not going to find anything that I'll actually use unless it's a named item which has become beyond rare. I'm one perk away from the "pick never breaks perk". This pick moving close to were the sweet spot is is nice and probably all I need but even at 100 lockpicking a hair's breadth off means a broken pick.

Depends on how big of an ass the horse was to begin with before someone shot the svcker for mouthing off when it shouldn't have. If it was a contemptible [censored] like you who would inanely insert itself in conversations it had nothing to contribute to then I guess it could warrant a little post mortem beating if I found the body first and it wasn't too rotten. Wouldn't want to get rotten ass all over my shoes, you know.

But that's just my off the cuff response, I'm sure if I put a little thought into it I could give you a graph if you're interested on how likely I'd be to favor beating a dead horse in relation to how the horse acted in life. We could interpret the graph together, laughing at it over milk and cookies on a crisp autumn afternoon in the park (the graph would inevitably require funding, time, as well as q&a sessions so I'm afraid I wouldn't have it done this summer. That makes autumn a good estimation assuming the statistics comes out with a result that falls within the acceptable margin of error of course). I assume chocolate chips are acceptable?

You know what would have made the perks less useless? If beth had made picks a lot less common. I guarantee you that you'd be much more careful lockpicking when you know you know you only have 5 picks left.

I am sorely in need of open lock spells.. Legit ones, not mod ones.

Agreed completely. The fact that I'm contemplating using perks just so I'm not inconvenienced in real life is a true failure on their part. At least previous games had a force-attempt that overcame that.

I generally just quickly move through certain ranges according the type of lock it is. Usually trying 7 spots (one middlle and three more per left/right side) finds the spot quickly then it's just a few more tries before i get it. Do you have some special technique that works diffently than that?

It's a terrible skill tree...even though Master chests can take a bit longer, careful practice can expedite the process.

The only lockpicking perks I can see myself taking are the ones that give more loot, the ones that are actually used for locks are not needed. My Lockpicking is 85 and I have no perks as of yet in the entire skill tree.

I do think the perks save time and make things easier... however considering i usually have several hundred picks on me i don't leave chests behind with or without the perks

5 picks can open any lock at any skill level, no perks involved. Do a binary search. Try first at the default (top) position. Then try the 2 upper corners, where the bolts are. Then try all the way left and all the way right. If you still haven't started to get some motion, split the distance between the points you've already tried. Then carefully zoom into the exact spot from there. Use the unique markings on the lock image to show you where to try again if a pick breaks. You should get 2 or more attempts per pick on a master lock, once you develop some finesse.

To reiterate, no perks are "necessary" in the lock pick tree. It's completely wasted. This is purely out of a desire to save time. I find myself running through dungeons at this level without any troubles at all and the only thing that holds me back is lockpicking. Lockpicking takes real time and if a dungeon has a lot of doors and chests that require it then the addition of the actual time can be significant. I'm not really a magic user nor do any of the particular schools of magic actually require perks so I have to consider the user of my perks carefully here. Do I want to use perks on something I will not use, or do I want to use perks for something I use in every single dungeon multiple times? I practically had to accept the latter as the most valid option since I'm certainly not going to start delving into illusion now that I've got my fighting style all hammered out and solidified with this character.

It really just comes down to time for me. The lock picking minigame has been boring for more than half the game at this point. It serves no purpose now but to just impede my process. It's like walking encumbered.

But that's exactly what I do and while I open any chest in less than a minute, it all still adds up in the end to me spending 15+ minutes per playthrough just opening the damn things. Right now with the perk that starts the lock close to the sweet spot that time has been diminished significantly to the point where we're talking just a few seconds with maybe three attempts (master locks still have a narrow sweet spot).

I get into Master locks within 3 picks.
It's all about skill, it takes you 9 picks? Then get better at it, simple as that.
No one beat Super Mario Bro's on their first try, it takes practice to make perfect.

So they are still worthless, even if you want it convenient and fast all you have to do is get better at it and it becomes easier and faster.

Then again, I had Fallout 3 and New Vegas as practice.

THIS.

My lockpicking is 29 with no perks. I have recently picked 3 Expert and 1 Master lock in 10 picks using roughly this method.

Edit: My husband will mess with a lock so much that it clicks on every adjustment. I don't rely on clicks. You just hit certain spots and feel it out.

Master with 3? Are you using armor or something that beefs it up? Are you able to guess the number I'm thinking right now? Go ahead take a guess.

If I find the spot fast, then 3 picks are fine. But there's essentially five spots that are close enough to trigger some movement to hone in on it and even at 100 lockpicking the master locks still require almost exact precision even if it does have a wider zone of recognition than when you're a lower level trying one.

I seriously doubt 3 picks are really your average without you doing something else. The odds of even finding the correct area is 1 out of 5 with only a 60% chance of finding the right area in three attempts let alone honing in on it exactly enough on the last attempt. Statistics simply isn't on your side there. It isn't about getting more "skilled", at this point it's about pure chance unless you know something we don't. After I find the area there isn't much bungling and maybe you can hone in better than I can once you find the general area, but for me it isn't any more than 3 after I find it.

the only other decent bonus in the tree is better loot / more gold... which does mean that you end up finding Dragon Scale level armor quite alot.

Given that lockpicking is getting easier and easier with each TES game, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go the way of lockpicking/hacking in Mass Effect.

It depends how good your technique is. I typically need ~10 picks to get through a master lock. I acquire picks faster than I break them, therefore I dont need to spend a single perk in that tree.

I spent far too much time playing fallout...

Not true

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnS6leHfB2c

On the topic at hand, I can only imagine treasure hunting being useful if I were using no crafting skills at all. I don't think I've ever made a character who hasn't used at least one crafting skill, come to think of it. Guess I got my idea for my next build.