1st thread
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1396310-they-really-need-to-nerf-enchanting-and-alchemy/page__fromsearch__1

I have been reading through the comments, and it seems that most people agree that the way enchanting/aclhemy works should be changed so, Please lets hear some more idea of how to make it better. I hust dont like how bethseda makes enchanting/alchemy so easy to break the game.

last thread reached post limit

hmm

Plenty of skills in the game are an issue in regards to gameplay balancing. Using certain skills or a combination of them takes you well beyond the point at which any enemy can contest it.

What is the point of me getting a load of high end gear if it takes all the challenge out of the game? At the moment Skyrim only really caters to low skill gamers and people who want to play a casual game with no difficulty which is disappointing to me.

It would be fun getting to that high end state if there was something to overcome that required it.


I really hope some future DLC adds some really high end enemies and areas.

I wish there were actually robes to enchant. I've found two unenchanted robes so far, the Vaermina Robes and a Black Robe I bought off a Khajit caravan. But nothing that even looks mildly cool, really.

Wrong: most people are saying one of two things.
1) Fix the games AI. That is actually something that can happen and is improving the game.

2) Stop using the resto glitch then complaining later.

Only the full retards are saying that enchanting is the problem.

I was under the impression that there are two or three people saying things should be nerfed and the vast majority seems to think things are fine the way they are.
Why not make a poll?

At least that would give this thread some reason to exist, the topic has been debated to death.

So things should be improved, not nerfed. Fixing the horrible AI, making enemies actually a threat at higher levels, and things of that nature are much more appealing to me than taking away my power. I don't think I'm overpowered, I just don't find challenge in swatting at flies. It's not that I'm too powerful, it's that the enemies the game is throwing at me are too easy. Don't drag me down to their level, elevate them to mine.

If at first you don't succeed...keep re-posting the same thread over and over again with the same people commenting over and over again.

Even though i didnt start this thread, someone else continued it for me

Improved AI is probably the biggest thing leading to being too OP. They should definitely improve AI first in the next game and not take away what the players resources. I had a thread a while back suggesting way Bethesda could change combat up in the next game. Here it is if you guys want to check it out. http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1395684-how-enemy-fighting-mechanics-should-be/

AI honestly has nothing to do with enchanting being overpowered. The AI issue came about when people started talking about why stealth is overpowered. Enchanting is overpowered, along with alchemy and smithing, just because you can raise statistics far too high with them. Even without buffing them with eachother for even more absurd stat buffs. AI improvements can certainly help the stealth gameplay since the power of stealth is partially in how easy it is to take advantage of poor AI with, but they aren't going to fix the player just doing too much damage and/or taking too little damage or other stat related imbalances.

This.

Enchanting isnt the problem, i don't know why you felt the need to continue this topic.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, with perhaps a minor adjustment. In fixing the enemy AI (making them read situations properly and not so open to exploitation), you'd have to reduce the calculations and numbers behind the scenes. When the challenge comes from an enemy being able to kill you in one hit, be it spell or sword, making them smart would be like rubbing dirt in your eye.

So with an improved AI, make enemies more or less on par with us on terms of damage and health, and perks , as well as armor for those who it applies to and you can have enemies who will continually prove some challenge while not having tons of health and access to the Troll-Ice-spike.

Does this dead horse really need to be beaten again?


And do you really think they'd change it anyway? Multiply-stacking-to-infinity stat potions in Morrowind. 100% reflect / absorb / chameleon / whatever in Oblivion (and some of those in MW, too?) The various ways that spellmaking could produce ludicrous effects (like recursively-stacking weakness spells in OB). There's always been plenty of ways to overpower yourself by over-doing the various "crafting" abilities in the TES games. And they've never chosen to "fix" it.


The TES games are not designed to provide Uber Challenge? for Super-Ultra-Min/Max Powergamers?. That's just not the style of the game series. If you're looking for a game that'll kick in the face of your carefully optimized character..... Bethesda is not the company that's going to give that to you. And that's all there is.


edit: for reference - I played my first character in a way that I would consider "normal". I used crafting "naturally".... my Enchanting was never good enough for anything beyond slapping Soul Trap on a sword (it wasn't perked, I just disenchanted stuff); my Alchemy could provide me with reasonably useful healing potions; and my Smithing (first skill to reach 100, at level 48) got me some pretty decent gear. My best weapon was a ~110 damage Daedric Sword @ level 50. That characer, on Adept difficulty, felt challenged by fights from level 10 to the mid 40's. Certainly didn't seem overpowered. But then, I don't naturally "optimize" (or min/max, or powergame). That's not a "normal" playstyle for me.

Maximum alchemy bonus is hardcapped around 29%, using enchanting/ alchemy loops but not fortify restoration bug.
Maximum enchanting is hardcapped around 32%, same conditions.*

This is not 'overpowered'.
This is just fine.

*For alchemy this means 4 pieces of apparel, giving you a potion a little over 110% more powerful than without alchemy gear. This means that you can still find or purchase stronger potions and poisons than you can make.

For enchanting you end up with a single potion that gives a 32% bonus. No real uber advantage.

No they still don't.

As I said -
"...because you can raise statistics far too high with them. Even without buffing them with eachother for even more absurd stat buffs."
Considering 100 alchemy and enchanting without those increases is already overpowered, no it isn't fine. If you console in 100 enchant + perks alone, you get incredibly high statistic benefits. You can make a school of magic costless, become near immune to magic, increase your damage with a weapon more than the 100% increase available via that weapon style's perk tree, etc. etc.

Granted, enchanting is all about stat buffs and 100 enchant shouldn't be weak, but it's definitely too powerful if you look at the stat benefit per perk ratio(which is sadly easy to do since so many perks are just stat buffs themselves).

To me, the argument is "Enchanting/Smithing/Alchemy is OP and needs to be nerfed because they remove challenge from the game," so it seems to me that the argument really centers on how the game is more about how to make the game more challenging. So, in my opinion, talking about improving the quality of the enemy seems like a better fix than nerfing the player while being on the topic of "How can we make the game more challenging?"

True, enchanting/smithing/alchemy can be used to become incredibly powerful, but you have to loop them/stack yourself with enchantments for it to really seem overpowered in my opinion, and in that case you should just remove your 200% Archery Bonus gear.

As I said in the last thread, if you're looking for challenge in Skyrim, nerfing the crafting skills isn't going to do anything because besides a handful of enemies, nothing is really that hard to kill. So, if we're looking at how best to add challenge to the game, improving the caliber of the enemies you face seems to be much better than weakening the player.

All these things are intended.
You may not like them, but its how the game was meant to be.
For reducing casting cost for example, 100% reduction is absolutely an intended game feature, given the high cost of spells, the slow growth of your mana pool and the relatively low damage output that destruction does.
It also takes 3-4 apparel slots to get there, that then you cant spend on anything else.

Meanwhile, you are free with 100 alchemy to make a potion anything from totally unperked, which is a lot less powerful than found or purchased potions, all the way up to all the relevant perks + 4 pieces of gear, which still leaves some vendor potions superior.
You have a choice anywhere in that range.
To insist that somehow only the maximum potency applies is annoyingly misrepresenting the situation.

How does this topic keep getting posts? It's NOT going to change and it shouldn't. This issue isn't even an issue - it's subjective to the individual player, not the masses. It's based entirely on self-control, too. When you're saying NOOOOO, 2 EZ 2 BREAK you're implying that you are incapable of limiting yourself on these crafting skills.

It doesn't matter if they're intended, being intended doesn't make something balanced. But we don't really know how they intended the crafting skills to be used, having 100% cost reduction could've been an oversight. It really doesn't make sense that they'd intend for people to reduce mana costs to 0 though, considering it makes other stats and perks completely obsolete.

No one is insisting only the maximum potency applies either. I certainly am not arguing that every potency below that is fine. I don't quite understand what point you're trying to make with that part of your post. Sure, there's a low potency available if you don't perk alchemy or enchanting, but that clearly does not make them balanced just as melee is not underpowered because you don't deal enough damage with an iron dagger.

The TES games should have been designed to be challenging for all types of gamers.

Don′t bother.
He doesn′t understand it.

I mean that you have a choice on what suits your playstyle best.
These advocates of a 'nerf' want to control how everyone else plays their game, and that grinds my gears.
Its perfectly possible with the crafting skills, difficulty slider and choice to level combat/ noncombat skills to tweak Skyrim just to your liking.
I know I did, with my Ghostblade that does 88 damage and no perks in one-handed.

I like the measure of control Skyrim gives you, and if one end of the spectrum is godlike characters, so be it.
I dont want anything 'nerfed'.

hardcoe mode, good idea. Tweaking enemy AI, why not. Dawnguard added some new high level enemies, awesome.
Addition, not restriction.

no nerfing needed, if u dont want overpowered enchanting and alchemy then dont make them over powered, very simple.

No.

If I play the Archtype "thief" exactly as it is planned by the devs (Sneak + Archery), I get OP at the early 20s (Conjuration, Illusion and MeleeSneak - the last later, but still- are anolog).


Stop closing your eyes.