I think it's the merchants who aren't allowed in the cities.

Further evidence:

The merchants, specifically Ri'saad, tell us that Khajiit are not fond of these "cold, hard lands." That is, many Khajiit would not come to Skyrim, especially when it's in the middle of such turmoil. Ri'saad saw opportunity, however, and decided to trade in a land most of his kind would not even care to enter in the first place.

Also, J'zargo had no problem entering Skyrim and then Winterhold in order to get to the college, and both he and Kharjo have no issues entering cities if they follow you into it. The PC has no problem entering cities if s/he is Khajiit, and M'aiq is a wanderer.

This all goes to show me that, while Khajiit may be distrusted, it is only the merchants who are disallowed from entering the cities, on suspicion of things like stealing and contraband smuggling/selling. Also, despite the war, Skyrim has yet to officially secede and is still under the control of the Empire (for how long depends on the player's actions, of course): they still have the Empire's currency and laws. While cities can certainly choose whether to permit merchants to sell their wares within the walls, they can't just outright forbid Khajiit from entering.

The merchants, in this case, are much like the Alik'r: it's not their whole race who can't enter the walls, just groups or businesses who can legally be told "no, you can't perform your business here."

Thoughts?

(I'm getting offline to get onto Skyrim soon, so I won't be responding to the thread, but I'm hoping for something good when I come back!)

That's pretty much how I've understood it. Khajiit caravans need to stay out of the cities, and most khajiit that visit Skyrim are part of an itinerant group like this.

Aye, indeed. The thought just kinda came to me, since most users on these here forums, myself included, were pretty butthurt that this was left unexplained to us; I think it was more a matter of not properly understanding.

I think you're right. I was already thinking along much the same lines but you've managed to put together a coherent argument for what I thought

@Resident Pianist

Hmm. You could be right. Your argument makes sense, although if that were the case, I would think there would be more Khajiit inside cities. You gave two examples of Khajiit inside a city and I am not aware of any other examples. As far as J'zargo goes, I cannot help but notice that Winterhold is not a walled city and he spends most of his time inside the mages guild. When there is a wall adn a gate, it is pretty easy for the gaurds posted there to keep the Khajiit out. Could be that without protective walls the guards find it too much trouble to try to keep the Khajiit out and just don't bother. Also, since he is mages guild J'zargo might be under the archmage's protection and the magic fearing Nord guards might want to stay as far away as possible from him.

So, that leaves only one example of a Khajiit inside a walled City and that is for . I think your theory may have some merit but we will have to see what evidence others can provide to either support it or not.

Meanwhile, I started a new Khajiit hunter last weekend and am roleplaying him with a rule that he can never enter a walled city except at night (sneaks in wearing a cowl and hiding his tail under robes). So far it has been fun to play. He does most of his trading with other Khajiit or in cities that don't have walls.

... Nah.
They're allowed inside the city really... but if they wanted to set up their tent inside, they'd probably need some sort of special permit and have to jump through all sorts of stupid hoops and red tape. It is their attempting to set up inside the city WITHOUT the necessary trading permits, etc, that would get them snubbed.
Ergo... they set up shop outside the city where it is far less hassle.

(please forgive my ignorance of TES lore... Skyrim was my first one)

Why forbid Khajiit merchants but not other races? I see stall after stall in the market areas run by elves. They even own stores. I understand the Khajiit are distrusted, but so are the Dunmer. At least that's what I gather from walking around Windhelm.

Khajiit are infamous for being criminals of all stripes: murderers, assassins, thieves and smugglers. Not only that, but they're all inherently capable of such things with ease.

Speak to Ysolda in Whiterun if you want a little more information. Also, Skooma and Moon Sugar are illegal, and Khajiit tend to be fond of those things. You won't see any Skooma rings in Skyrim (at least so far, what with expansions and all not yet being announced), but it was a prevalent problem in previous games. No Khajiit merchants means less crime.

I don't want to post too many spoilers here, but I think I already came across one.

Don't appologize just because Skyrim is your first TES game. Your thoughts are spot on. The general dislike for Khajiit as a race is pretty much new to Skyrim. In Oblivion, for example, where there were disposition modifiers for race, being a Khajiit did not trigger a negative modifier from any other race. Altmer on the other hand are almost universally hated, and for good reason, and this is reflected in the Oblivion race disposition modifiers.

In both Oblivion and Morrowind, Khajiit were everywhere and treated more or less the same as anyone else. Now, granted, in Morrowind, some of the Khajiit were enslaved. And some of the NPC's in Morrowind and Oblivion made derogatory comments about Khajiit, but there was nothing like Skyrim's keeping Khajiit out of cities.

Maybe that can be explained as just a prohibiton on Khajiit setting up tents inside cities, but as you mentioned, other races are not prevented from doing so. And if it were just a prohibition on setting up tents, I would expect to see more than just two examples of NPC Khajiit's inside a city,

no the was just a dealer but you are right there is one in the Rift

Argonians are just as bad but Argonian merchants are not banned from setting up shop inside walled cities in Skyrim.

Interesting observation. But when you talk about your khajit character being allowed into cities, you are the dragonborn, so don't really suffer racial intolerance/abuse. It's probably also just lazy game designing allowing those specific khajits into cities.

Last I checked, that Khajiit party is pretty much the ONLY travelling trade caravan in the game.... isn't it? And if it was gonna be anyone, it would be Khajiit or Redguard... naturally.
Now, I reckon that there not being any other Khajiit traders is either just a strange coincidence, an oversight on Bethesda's part.... or just an indication that the Khajiit don't really want to settle down in the land of ice and snow.

I'm pretty sure folks here are just overthinking this.

So, as a little exercise.... think about all the non-Nord shopkeepers in the game (or those you can remember)... how many there are of each, and where they can be found.

I thought it was because Bethesda was trying to make each race fair, as they've said "you won't be restricted by anything depending on what race you choose"

i do not believe it's anything Lore wise that you can go into any town if you play a Khajiit. your Companions (Kharjo & J'zargo) people might also find unfair if they weren't aloud in either.

i know the Argonian's aren't aloud in Windhelm because Ulfric doesn't like outsiders and neither do the towns people but that doesn't stop you from going in if your an Argonian does it?

Can think of two non-Nord shop owners off the top of my head:

The Bosmer who runs the Drunken Huntsman in Whiterun
The Dunmer who runs Sadri's Used Wares in Windhelm (but in the Dunmer district)

The Dunmer in Windhelm probably wouldn't have a choice to open up shop anywhere else within Windhelm, but why not in other cities? Whiterun doesn't have a concept of an "elf quarter" but it does have an economic division (the three districts).

All I am saying is that in a land the size of Skyrim there should be some Khajiit (merchant or not) that live in a walled city somewhere. Whiterun and Riften are not that cold and snowy, but there is not a single Khajiit living in either city.

I can see having fewer Khajiit because its cold, although that argument only goes so far. Khajiit are covered with fur and would seem to be better equipped than other races to deal with the cold. There are plenty of examples of cats in nature adapting to snowy climates, not to mention the Snowy Sabrecats you can find in Skyrim.

If any race should be more or less absent in Skyrim its the Argonions. Reptiles don't have much tolerance for cold. And Argonians are well known thieves, assassins and skooma users. So all the arguments about Khajiit would apply equally if not moreso to Argonians, yet there are plenty of Argonians living and trading in Rifton.

Off the top of my head? In addition to the ones you mentioned, there is I haven't spent much time at all in Solitude, Marketh, Dawnstar, or Falkreach, so I couldn't tell you anything about those.

People don't have to know you're Dragonborn. In fact, nobody does until you get a little further in the MQ, so you can essentially do everything else in the game without any mention of the Dragonborn whatsoever.

Also, everyone, there are merchants of all races throughout the game. The Khajiit merchants are disallowed from doing their business within the city walls, but ( a ) Khajiit are allowed in the cities, as is obvious; ( b ) as you'll hear from almost every Khajiit in the game, none of them are fond of Skyrim, so it would make little sense for them to make their home there, just as the Nords don't like what they hear of Elsweyr and would not emigrate to that country; and ( c ) Khajiit people, as a race, tend to refer to themselves in humble mannerisms, including the third person perspective and using the word "Khajiit" to refer to oneself. This means that it's quite likely that when the merchants say Khajiit are not welcome in the city, they mean themselves specifically.

^{good , never thought of it this way.}

The game still treats you as dragon born though, regardless of your mq progression. Think about the first city you enter, you have to persuade the guard to let you in as you have important news, the same for any race.

It's a nice idea, but I think it's just lazy game designing. They probably forgot about companions when deciding the 'no khajit in cities' idea, would also be a little awkward to implement, they would have to wait outside the gate.

Actually, it's not only Kajiit that are mistrusted but every race that is not a Nord. How many Orcs do you see in cities? Argonians? Mer? Yes there are some here and there but you can count them on one hand. The only exception is the Thalmor agents in Solitude but that is by design. You do find more Bretons and Redguards but I suspect only because they look more human than the other races. They are still in the minority though.

Keep in mind that Skyrim is not a metropolitan province. It is home to the Nords who are generally considered a bit backwards in everything including their relations with other races. They are a closed community with little love for outsiders but they are tradition bound to extend their hospitality even to those they do not like.

Kajiit hates the cold. Their fur was not designed to keep heat in but to let it out as they hail from desert country. So it's more a cooling mechanism than a insulator. This is why there are so few of them around I believe. The trading caravan only came because there is a war and they see opportunity for profit in it. Some joins expeditions into the Dwemer ruins in the hopes of finding treasure. For most of those that are in Skyrim it's about money.

I see the three khajiiti caravans as being treated simalarly to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers are in the real world. I think it's a Skyrim/Nord thing as well. There's also the environment, snow in place of warm sand. They might have fur, but it's still freezing in this province. Khajiit have made little in the way of inroads into Skyrim it seems, and the khajiit themselves seems to long for their homeland. So they themselves are probably little interested in establishing themselves beyond a few like Ri'saad, Ahkari, Ma'dran and their followers.

[censored] ignorant nords

The Khajiit are sort of like the gypsy peddlers of medieval Europe who travelled from town to town, with the locals always regarded them with suspicion.