I have about 110 hours in. I will do my best to leave out any huge spoilers. Note: I have played every game since ARENA including the horrendous REDGUARD.


Except for the main quest it seems like everything in this game is positively evil or dark. There really are no positive story line quest to do, compared to say Oblivion. I't almost like the game reflects the movie/cultural landscape of when it was born. It has moved from moral gray areas to just plain dark.


Imperial/Stormcloak choice - neither side was "good" As it should be. However both are cast in a really negative light. Do we really need an allegoric pontifical image of US/Iraq in our virtual games?

Dark Brotherhood - EVIL by definition, but torture porm in the upgraded Sanctuary. REALLY? ( Hostel/SAW )

Thieves guild - Less of a social underclass mechanic and more like the Sopranos. Even after you cleanup the guild, its still a pack of spoiled rich kids picking on the poor. (Less Disappointed but still much darker than past TG )

Warriors guild ( Yes I know what they are actually called) - Brothers in arms and honor.... long as the coin is right. Oh BTW we are an evil pack of monsters... literally.



Where are the "white" quests? The ones where you battle the previously mentioned darkness? They do not exist or are exponentially shorter than the evil side (19:1 ratio for the Dark Brotherhood) Compared to Oblivion, it seems like this game is very dark and very "you will play this path". All of them are dark thus far. The only positive quests are simply radial quests that have no real impact on the "world" as a whole.


Since when did Bethesda start making game for dark emo kids that live in their parents basemant instead of advlts that have played and supported their company for decades? Am I missing a whole story line here or something? If not, poor form and poor writing on Bethesda's part. My wife and I played Oblivion gaining every achievement. My wife can't even finish half these story lines due to their juvenile and dark nature.

I think they were aiming for something darker and grittier, and fitting the atmosphere of the place. Whether they went overboard is a matter of opinion I suppose (I haven't completed any questlines all the way through yet, so I can't really have an opinion right now).

Thats what guilds do...they're a group of tradesmen who get paid to do jobs. What was evil about them? I don't recall them turning into werewolves and attacking citizens.(In fact, most of them approve of you curing them.)

Thank you for ruining the quest lines for me on the factions I have not played yet. I appreciate it. Good job there posting Spoilers in the General Section.

I will move this to where it should have been put in the first place.

You had the start of a really interesting discussion, right up to this point. Yes, the quests are on the darker side. But I found OB slightly too bright and cheery.

However - is it impossible for people to start threads here that don't include some straw man assault on imagined audiences/Bethesda motives?

The 4 ERA. After the Oblivion Crisis many things changed in the world. Many things since the first era, within the lore, has been lost in time.

We are playing in a time where the human takes place in the world with his very nature: morality ambiguity.

If you notice, Dark Brotherhood is fading away from history. The last sanctuary still remains for those who didn't quest for destroy it. But it's the last sanctuary. Sithis and the night mother will die in the sands of time soon.

Talos worship was banned by the thalmor.

Civil war because of (in my opinion) a stupid arrogant Nord self-called "True High King of Skyrim".

The Imperialism, since the death of Martin Septim, was decaynig in corruption and falseness (this word exists in EN? sorry, guys... It's not my first lang. )

Magic is something nords tends to avoid, so, they don't like people using spells.

The game shows the decay of man and mer, as it would be someday. The world always tended to blackness.

EDIT: The Blades are broken and they're now decayed remains of two centuries.

Sorry for any bad ENGLISH...

Skyrim has a very strong "May you live in interesting times." Vibe going for it and that saying is after all a CURSE. So the dark tones make sense.

Well the other perceived population that would enjoy darkness in this amount is far scarier. I took the lesser of two evils. Implementing violence without context is simply sociopaths on parade. Something everyone seems to have lost an understanding of recently.

Skyrim is ... different from the other TES games. Darker, yes. Less choice, yes. Aggressive guilding, yes. Railroading, yes. I think a better description of Skyrim would be exploring the lack of choices forced by the difficult lifestyle in this wasteland.

To turn a complaint thread into something useful...

You've played the majority of the content, so you understand the nature and environment of Skyrim. If you could, where would you add 'light-side' content? What cities, quests, factions, etc, could benefit from heroic quests without breaking the setting? What would you change, and where?

Now that you mention it, I like the game even more now. I never thought of it that way, but it does have a dark element to it.

But the Winterhold quests and Companion quests do appear to be benevolent. I don't see any evil going on there. And if you think about it, those are the two main guilds, the mages and warriors guild. So I don't see the issue with not being able to be good. (Btw, Werewolves can be concieved of as good, see Twilight.)

Although, as a Dark Brotherhood assassin, I sacraficed a Companion. It was hard to choose who though cause they were all so nice and friendly, but i chose the one who insulted me as I walked past her.

Make sense yes, but the game would usually have ways of bringing back civil society. The Dark Brotherhood with the tenets has a place. Thieves guild, due to a weak central economy has a place. But so do the "white" areas. All they put in were the dark parts and even then you can't fully fix them. TES games are about freedom. This one feels more like a middle management meeting from hell.

Why would you assume that just because the Companions are werewolves that they're evil? They are, at worst, neutral. Being more mercenary than noble. But calling them evil is making a leap.

And they let you pick and choose which sidequests you want. Avoid Farkas' "beat this person up" and take Vilkas "rescue this person" and Aela "stop this animal terrorizing these people" quests.

TES games are sandboxy but are still bound within the snapshot of time that the events take place. Good and varied writing can insert different levels of dark/light into a game's narrative but not entirely shift the setting's tone.

Because, by most peoples morals, both inside the game and outside, killing people and then eating them is wrong. It isn't necessarily evil to kill someone, especially if they are evil, but desecrating their body is wrong.

Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild - Evil

Mage's COLLEGE ( no guild) and Companions - neutral bordering on evil.

* crickets chirping * - neutral bordering on good

- Good ( notice the void. It's like Sithis looped back around)

I think the fact that you're trying to save an entire province from evil dragons is a noble cause. In fact, I think dragon slaying has always been considered a moral good.

Not to mention, you're a dragonborn who's whole purpose is to use his powers for good to save everyone from dragons.

I don't say this a lot... But..

The game itself is dark. As someone said: "This wasteland".

The place is a white desert (Love snow.. and cold.. well.. )
and not only a white desert but the cities are LITTLE, few population, whiterun has broken walls.. everything looks like a feud, at all.

Different from Oblivion, Cyrodill Castles are huge and has many influence on architeture and culture.

Skyrim is different. Skyrim is not a happy place.


Please, someone answer: Am I a failure discussing here with you guys? I'm afraid my english could be too [censored].
Answer me!

Good thing they never talk about doing that, then. They talk about using the werewolf form for prowess. Not for dinner.

I'm sorry but sound more like one of these TES fans that only played Oblivion and Oblivion alone rather than one of "advlts" that played and supported their company since the begining. There is whole main quest line that you're THE [censored] DRAGONBORN WHO KILLS BLACK, EVIL, WORLD EATER DRAGONS.... Is that not enough?

As a Song of Fire and Ice reader who for the most part absolutely HATES fantasy fiction the tone of Skyrim has been right up my alley . I thought some of the quests should have had more completion options, for the most part some of the Daedric ones. But overall I love that Skyrim has lived up to it's lore reputation as a harsh unforgiving landscape.

To stay in the form longer, you eat people. I'm sure they've chowed down, especially if they like being in the form. Not to mention, once you die, you hunt with Hircine in his plane, and then every 200 years you go and hunt in the Bloodmoon. You normally kill humans while doing so. Werewolves are evil, therefor Companions are evil.

Yes, killing is wrong and evil in modern society. I don't think that anyone would argue that shooting or stabbing a person in real life is seriously f'ed up. There is a different morality in the TES universe. Even the most timid shopkeeper will stab you or melt your face for pickpocketting a few coins, or a loaf of break. It's a world where kill-or-be-killed is the norm, where walking from town to town involves significant risk of death, and a successful adventurer can wield more power than the authorities.

Skyrim takes this one step further. You don't have roads, you have trails or nothing. There is no organized government, no inter-city guilds, and arbitrary enforcement of the laws. You can have a drink with a Daedric Lord at the bar, get paid by the Jarl to kill squatters in the local watchtower, and steal the soul of a necromancer who was trying to do the same to you. It's a barbaric land on the verge of anarchy, and the 'light of civilization' isn't even a rumor in these lands.

Welcome to Skyrim. Your choices are kill, leave, or die. Good luck.

Harsh and unforgiving (not equal to ) evil

A hellish snowscape with dragons has no different than the local Mall when it comes to choices between good and evil. It's the lie inserted into the modern social contract that makes people believe so. There are always choices, possibly not perfect but there are choices.

Besides, Bethesda already had a stage for this doomsday landscape. Fallout.

Never once in a post said it was.