I don't understand what the big deal about perks is. It's functionally the same as getting 25 skillpoints. Maxing out a perk is functionally equivalent to putting 100 skillpoints into something. The only difference is that skillpoints are a finer gradient than perk points.But perks are a more streamlined user experience. I'd be the first person to wail on a dev for dumbing things down. But there's nothing to complain about in this case because it does the exact same job at the end of the day.

There's one salient difference I've noticed between people's perceptions of Fallout 3 and 4, people seemingly adore and extol Fallout 3 for being a great game with some permissible flaws.
In contrast, people thoroughly enjoy Fallout 4 but there's always a feature that dampens the mood, whether it's the removal of skills, the voiced protagonist, the awful dialogue system or the porting of it on PC. There's always a notable issue with Fallout 4, with Fallout 3 it received almost unadvlterated praise from fans; Fallout 4 has irritated many of them in some way.

Wandering through the wasteland feels like I run a unfinished game in editor mode. While lots of raiders have been copy & pasted on ruins, the quests/npc/ sidelore still needs to be added.

I dont feel the importance to collect and use the items I find. Also this is far away from anything that feels like a rpg.

Of course if you dont expect a new fallout, you wont be disappointed. This is a nice open world fps shooter sure.

And why not make a good use of this new combat system and add a multiplayer to this game so we can get the most fun out of it ? ...

It's the same with the TES games. When Oblivion came out, Morrowind was this fantastic game with permissible flaws, and then Oblivion was called the same thing when Skyrim came out. I've always wondered if Morrowind went through the same thing when compared to Daggerfall.

Now it's Bethesda's 2 Fallout games.

There was character customization for one. In Fallout 4 you might as well go through the game without any upgrades, perks, or special attributes, because they make little to no difference on your game play since you essentially max all of them out anyways.

Secondly there were far more dialogue choices, and the choices that you made actually mattered. In Fallout 4 the dialogue choices are simplistic, and provide you with little to no consequence or benefits.

There is no denying the extreme lack of NPC extras in the game. In NV/FO3 you would find these extras everywhere, whether its a prisoner behind bars in a raider camp, or just the NPC choices for assigning a new sheriff to Primm. In Fallout 4 you could wander endlessly finding nothing but raiders and wasteland creatures to fight. Once again with nothing interesting to do.

I loved all the previous Fallout games and spent a Lot of time in FO3 and FO:NV. I`m now thoroughly enamoured with FO4.

So much great stuff makes it feel like it has now EVOLVED instead of the same old recipe. The Settlements are a nice addition and the raids can be really fun to get caught in. Things like flying in Vertibirds and letting loose with the minigun from the sky on your targets, or using artillery strikes on swarm locations...brilliant.

There`s so much crammed into the map, masses of tiny details that tell their own stories, plenty of action around every corner, even the story is pretty good in FO4.

Sure there`s bugs and some downsides, but overall I feel FO4 is a gripping game I`ll be spending a lot of time playing.

I hate COD, prefer Battlefield myself

tl;dr - All franchises change and evolve. TES is a prime example when you`ve played it since Arena.

I back you up 100%!

Because in Fallout 3/NV you could focus everything onto a particular skill, and have it maxed out by level 4-5 (Or slightly later without maxed int). You would not be able to utilize other aspects of your character as efficiently, but I shouldn't need to say that it was YOUR DECISION. These perks are NOT the same, because you have to wait an absurdly long period of time in comparison to other games to achieve the appropriate level to max out the said "Skill". In other words there is absolutely no character customization outside of the special attributes, since they force you to choose your perks with extreme restrictions based on level and previous perks.

Long story short - THEY REMOVED THE RPG ELEMENT OF FALLOUT. You don't fing do that to a Fallout game. Its an FPS now... I just can't believe it.

I've read a few long time posters say that yes when Morrowind was released plenty of Daggerfall fans called it dumbed down and many of the same buzzwords that are stillused today.

Well I'm enjoying Fallout 4 a great deal and due to the enemies moving faster I'm having a more difficult time with it as well. There are some weird technical problems when building your own town with the settlement feature but I'm hoping that will be corrected in an official or unofficial patch. That being said just because I liked the game and other people do not doesn't make their opinions (or mine for that matter) any less valid. People are going to like what they like. I'm having a fun time with it though. Thanks for the great game bethesda!

Never played a good RPG, I take it? The Fallout series isn't like Doom or Duke Nukem. Well, until now, anyway... .

I wonder who is responsible for this mess and what were they just thinking? I can only imagine that old people left or have been forced to this.

that was only until 4 was released before then, the same people who hate 4 were saying the exact same things about 3 in relationship to NV. if they follow the pattern, when 5 comes out 4 will become some great game with acceptable flaws while 5 is a steaming pile of crap. most likely they're just trolls and will move along soon enough.

No, 4 will still be the steaming pile of crap. I don't see how anyone could forget the tragedy that was this game.

They even removed skill checks in speech. COME ON!

I've been around long enough to know what will happen. same old same old. wash, rinse, repeat. the internet never changes

Thats the thing. People with legitimate dislikes of elements in the game will always get washed away with the same old of "Old good, new bad."

Fallout 4 is the second Bethesda game that has some elements that are not perfectly to my tastes but that I still love more than may be healthy about a video game. Oblivion was the first, with its generic fantasy setting and level scaling, but I still love the times ive had and the character that I play in there just as much as the other games. Fallout 4 has a voiced protagonist, which I don't like, but I still fully plan to play and love this game for as long as I possibly can.

No. Fallout NV missed some depth in lore/details (such as explorable content on computers and complex corridors) .. there have been great other elements. But THIS is way beyond anything endurable.

most of them are. you think it's a coincidence 90% of them are people with less than 10 posts and just joined? most of them are probably just trolls having some fun. that being said, I do take the older members with higher post counts much more seriously. may disagree with them, but at least they are big fans of the franchise. I mean, come on, just look at the title of the thread. 1/10? you can't tell somebody is just trolling? I play along a little, but I also know whats going on.

lol. You do realize that there are concrete foundations in the floors section that do the job of raising the floor up off the grass so it doesn't poke through? I guess they didn't dumb down the building system enough for you, which is ironic since the rest of your post is bashing the game for being too dumbed down.

I'm having some settlement problems too with pieces not lining up all the way power to only parts of a building and so on. This particular feature is the one that needs the most patching from what I've encountered in my game.

You can max in 3 and NV.

Do you max out your lockpicking when you hit level 2? No, but in Fallout 4 you do! You have to wait until you are level 9 before you can even think about taking another level in lockpicking.

I have but it seems you never played a shoot em up.

I can say that I am 30+ hours into Fallout 4 and I am not an invincible god of death, master of all things and you know what? That's great.

We have no level cap in this game from what I have read about it. The way the game is set up is so we can progress slowly. People wanted no level cap, the forums were full of people wanting that. The developers gave us this. So what is the point of having no level cap but maxing out your character by level 20 like we can in Fallout 3?

The game is great so far, I am avoiding the main story line. I thought I wouldn't like the voiced character but it has grown on me. The developers have listened to the people on the forums. They have taken tons of fan suggestions and put it into the game, even minor things like beer giving caps.

Some people with giant post counts here seem to be more, well, not quite trolls but come across more as a cartoon character than a real person. I try very hard to take them seriously but more often what they say comes across as a caricature rather than a reasoned argument. And yes thats the "dumbing down" crowd that plagues every single game release.

As others have said good old Morrowind got the same brunt of "dumbed down console trash" hate when it was released way back in the CRT monitor days of 2002. I was pretty young then, but I lurked this community on and off for a very long time before posting myself a few years ago, and its very true that no matter what happens there will always be hate here for any new release that will wash away any honest discussion of what Bethesda is doing for good or bad.

As I said in another thread its a giant shame it has to be this way. Bethesda does listen to their fans, but so many people spout off catchphrases instead of logic and reason. A lot of the time it makes me think that some of the devs who may be reading this may lump in me and others dislike of certain elements in with that dumbing down crowd.