Yesterday I made a post asking about how long it would take for me to become Guild Master of the Thieves Guild. Some helpful people gave me some good information, and it worked out.

However, what I was also looking for was the Achievement that goes along with this Quest. On the Xbox360 it's an Achievement and 30 Gamerscore for "restoring the Thieves Guild to its former glory".

I've been through the ceremony to become Guild Master and everyone there now refers to me as "Guild Master". I can even access the Guild Master's Tribute Chest etc .....

The final part of "Under New Management" directs me to "Retrieve Your Guild Leader Armor from Tonilia".

Here's my problem: Earlier in my playthrough I had been directed to Tonilia to trade in a piece of ordinary Guild Armor for a better one. I didn't bother. I instead sold it in one of the many stores in Skyrim because I already had Dragon Armor. So, when I go to Tonilia now to get my Guild Leader Armor, she's still stuck back on when I was supposed to trade in my ordinary Guild Armor!! There are no options in the speech menu to get around this. When I tell her I no longer have that Armor, she just says "Tough luck for you then, come back when you have at least one of the pieces"!!!

This is outrageous .... I can't complete the very final part of Under New Management simply because hours and hours earlier I sold my Thieves Guild Armor. How was I supposed to know that this would lead to an unfinishable conversation with Tonilia????

Bethesda, why did you DO this? Is it a bug?

I've spent 30 hours + JUST on the Thieves Guild Questlines and repeatable quests, aiming for the Achievement and 30 Gamerscore .... and right at the very final part of the missions, right before I get the Achievement ... BOOM! Sorry, you need that piece of crappy Thieves Guild Armor you got rid of AGES ago!!! That;s just INSANE.

Again, I ask: Is this a bug? Why won't Tonilia just forget about that insignificant piece of armor and give me the Guild Leader Armor she's supposed to!

Can anyone suggest any way around this for me, or do I have to wait for another playthrough to get this Achievement. I even designed my character this time around sneaking and pickpocketing just so it would make Thieves Guilld missions easier!!

Bethesda, you just shot me in the knee with an arrow.

Its player like you that are the sole reason why Bethesda made some NPC essential, and quests items stuck in your inventory.

This is a consequence of the choice you made, live with it, dont write messages questioning if its a bug.

Or you could roll back to an earlier save, or restart a new character, or ........well............not sure there is anything else

You must have misread what I wrote.

If I had known that selling the ordinary Guild Armor would stop me from completing a quest DAYS LATER, I would have kept it.

That's the problem. There's no way to know.

Nothing to do with how I play.

Astonishing how some people read selectively.

To quote the OP: "I had been directed to Tonilia to trade in a piece of ordinary Guild Armor for a better one. I didn't bother. I instead sold it in one of the many stores..."

So you were asked to do something, you failed to do it, and now you can't complete the quest line. Don't know what to tell you other than maybe you should follow instructions next time? I mean no offense. It's just common sense to me. If you're asked to do something, do it but save right before you complete it. If you don't like the outcome, reload your save and try another option instead. It's basic RPG gameplay strategy.

- Dave

I was directed to do this as a Miscellaneous non-compulsory part of the Thieves Guild Quest. If it was so important it would have forced me to do it.

Hours and hours of gameplay later, at the very very end of a LONG process of restoring the Guild, Tonilia is the one character you need to talk to and she's the one character who apparently is totally unaware that you're now the Guild Leader.

How are you supposed to know that that one miscellaneous task will lead to you NOT getting the Achievement days later? It doesn't tell you ..... ??

I guess it goes back to the "never sell unique equipment" rule of RPG gaming?
I mean, seriously, you have lots of storage space in your house and it's not like you can't earn enough money doing things like potion creation in this game.
Ya know?

Hey, did you go back to the vendor to see if he still has your armor for sale?

Yes, I did. Every vendor in the game .... all alchemists, blacksmiths, traders etc ....

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Going back to your earlier point ..... it is a good idea to keep things ..... but surely selling one item, that the game makes no effort to tell you you'll need, shouldn't exclude you from an Achievement?

Espcially given how I've restored the Thieves Guild and become it's Leader. Qualifies as a very bad piece of programming at the least ... if not a bug.

Just downright unfair.

Is it possible to steal another guild member's armour and trade their's in with Tonilia? Either by pickpocketing them if you have the right perk or stealthily killing a non-essential guild member (if there is one). Not sure if this is possible, just an idea I had.

are you on PC? I read ur posts and u didnt state if u r on console or PC. You can simply use the console to get the armor.

Excellent idea. Inspired! I'll try it later, thanks.

I wish I was on PC. I'm on the 360, unfortunately.

Its not a bug, its bad design on Bethesda's part because they should have anticipated this happening
Still I have to ask does not getting a x-box achievement really matter? You know you've done it, you know you deserve it, its just a meaningless score.

there is a complete set of theives guild armor in one of the rooms in the cistern. same room where you speak to brynjolf just prior to the ceremony. if you haven't sold that set already, try and hand those in.

I can't say I'm all for Bethesda making it impossible to "lose" quests. I'm not thrilled with all the "essential" NPCs to begin with. The way I see it, it should be like real life...sometimes you make choices that take you down a path and that choice excludes you from following other paths. You don't know the future, so you have to live with your choices. If you kill an NPC who would have given you a quest in the future, so be it. There's plenty of other quests out there. It makes people think twice before taking actions.

It wouldn't be any fun if you were completely prevented from making "mistakes" in the game. That's the cool thing about Open-World games. It would be too linear if Bethesda never allowed you to deviate from a set path or make choices other than what they WANTED you to make.

- Dave

NPCs are essential not because the player may kill them but because the game may kill them.

Yeah, I do see what you're saying. I mean, it'd be pretty sad if they created a main storyline and an NPC essential to that main storyline somehow was killed in a random dragon attack.

Is it a fact, then, that the only NPCs that are essential are ones who are tied directly to the main quest line?

- Dave

Some excellent suggestions, looking forward to putting them into practice later. Thanks all.

Yes, you have a point there. I'll do my best to solve it, but if I can't, at least I know I did what was necessary.

Still, it'd be nice to have the Achievement officially.

First Rule of RPG's:

NEVER SELL ANYTHING UNIQUE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Trust me, I never sell anything unique or that I get from a guild even though I'll never use it. See, being a packrat has its advantages.

Vault Reaver, that's really unfortunate. I guess I have to say that due to being the packrat of ALL packrats, I'd never have the issue. Stuff like you sold isn't worth much anyway.... so why sell it then? This game is a river of gold.... I can't find anything to spend gold on any more.... Current toon's sitting on 97k at level 27. It's all living in a chest in my house.

So is everything "unusual" I've ever collected - from named weapons, to dragon claws. Don't sell anything "different" in future.

You can bet I won't

Unfortunately, if you're on a console I think you're screwed, unless Bethesda decides to add a workaround in a future patch. There have been lots of complaints about this very thing (selling the earlier armor & being unable to complete the questline) in particular. If it happened too long ago for you to be able to, or want to roll back to an earlier save, then I would say live & learn, and get the achievement on a different playthrough.

So you know, you should also keep any dragon priest masks you get; evidently there's a quest where you need all of them. Not sure about the specifics because I haven't looked it up, but they're all sellable too, so don't make the same mistake there.

It's not really a quest.... as such.... And - wasn't there something about the patch fixing the issue with specifically the TG armor/sale thereof?

Still nothing to fix the Thieves Guild armour situation. I've been on the Skyrim wiki, which I usually avoid because of spoilers, and this problem is indeed listed as a common bug on all platforms.

On PC, you can use the console commands to solve it.

People on Xbox and PS3 are pretty much screwed. Thanks a lot, Bethesda.

Maybe they'll fix this incredible screw-up in the next patch?