Ha! Spoken like a true Imperial.

Damn I am!

Interesting! I wonder if there is a way to join the Imperials and then betray them? I'd be all over that.

It works for both sides.

But you have made the mistake of revealing your plans to me!
*maniacal laugh*

Cool. Now I will have to join the Imperials just to try this out.


Uh, oh, Damn Imperial, now you will be sending a torturer after me, I suppose! Gotta catch me first.

BTW, I agree with your above assessment of Balgruuf. I felt genuinely bad about kicking him out of Dragonsreach.

You get some unique dialogue with Ulfric for doing it. I never did check with Tullius to see how he reacts afterwards.

Tullius gives you some unique dialogue too if you betray the Stormcloaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiri-qCJHKY

Balgruuf may appear to be neutral at the beginning but evidently speaking he is more sympathetic for the empire then with Ulfric therefor he is not neutral at all. He was always on the side of the empire. I can't see that as being neutral. I would've given Balgruuf a lot of props had he told the dragonborn to get lost (Since the dragonborn clearly is on the side of the Stormcloaks thus making the relationship less friendly) as he didn't need a messenger boy... instead he would go to Windhelm himself to have a 1 on 1 talk with Ulfric and to prevent a chaos from happening in whiterun. If nothing was being accomplished as far as words goes I would've given him so much credit if he pulled the same stunt as Ulfric did when he challenge High King Torygg. As far as the Windhelm serial killer incident I clearly blame the guards for allowing it to continue to happen. The only finger waving that I will give to Ulfric is by not firing these incompetent guards.


I wouldn't necessary call it a steal. It's a nice lovely home but it's not as big as the home in Windhelm. Of course it's going to be expensive.


It's not Irileth's job to play guard. That's why theirs guards inside Dragonsreach to protect the Jarl from any assassinations or other nuisance. They're there to enforce the law if the law is broken. In fact the guards seem to have allowed me to enter, especially in the city since whiterun was indeed closed by visitors. I wouldn't had a problem had a GUARD approached me with weapons drawn, since it's essentially their jobs, but a housecarl? No that was unacceptable.


I heard of it but never done it. I guess on my newest character I would probably do it... It's my way of telling Tullius to go shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

I hate the Civil War fullstop. I like it the way it is at the start. I hate all those new Jarls and guards that don't seem to belong.

Being sympathetic doesn't mean he fully supports the empire, it just means that of the two he sees the empire as having a stronger point. Ultimately he refuses to get involved until Ulfric forces his hand and he clearly gets annoyed with the empire throughout the course of things. Balgruuf may be overly cautious to some but I respect him far more than Ulfric since he can actually think more than 5 minutes ahead and his pride doesn't dominate his actions.

As for the Windhelm serial killer the blame is on both the guards and Ulfric, it is his duty to protect his people literally and metaphorically. Balgruuf keeps his city safe and secure and his men are far more diligent in their jobs, they even kicked out the Alik'r because of the crap they were pulling when looking for the redguard woman. In short, Ulfric can barely keep his own hold in order, how can he run the country.


Who cares about the home? This is a mindless debate to be perfectly honest but if it must be made then both are equally good for the price, end of debate.



Actually yes it is her job, being a housecarl means acting like the personal bodyguard to the Jarl. (like how Lydia is your 'sword and your shield' as she puts it because your are a thane). The guards job is to enforce the laws and they DID stop you, they only let you into the city because you have information about the dragon attack. Irileth stopped you when you were approaching the Jarl himself, its like a cop clearing you into a event with a diplomat but the secret service (Irileth in this example) preventing you from just walking right up to him. Not only was it completely acceptable but it is to be expected, who are you to just walk up to the Jarl armed, plus remember as Irileth has pointed out, there have been attempts made on Balgruuf's life so again, you are just overly sensitive to being put in your place. (sorry for the slightly rude tone of that, mostly just meant to emphasize her role in things)


If this debate is to continue it should seriously be done in another thread though, the OP has had his question answered and this thread is off topic. So if anyone wants to keep this going (as pointless as it will ultimately be) then create a separate thread for it and let this one die.