I think the biggest problem is that alot of thoes things are based on randomness. Except for assassinating somone without getting cought.

It's normal to see games where you save, try > fail > load > try again. But thats different I guess because then no matter if you load - it still comes down to actuall skill. So you still have to beat it, not just quick loading while spamming on one item you want to steall

I'm sure our way of doing things differ a lot - I just didn't think people prefered game design where cheating was part of the open world concept. But like I said a few posts back, I realised that the save/load might not be the problem - the fact that things are based on randomness every time you load is where the problem really is.

Yes, this is one of the most fun aspects of playing a criminal character.

My first character was a Dunmer klepto who was in and out of prison in all of the Holds except for The Rift. There is a lot of variety in the prisons and they are all greatly improved from Oblivion.

Some time later, I played a Nord barbarian who never picked locks, and it was quite problematic when I was arrested in Solitude for interfering with a public execution. I seem to recall the only way I managed to break out of prison was by transforming into a werewolf. I ended up going on a rampage, terrorizing the milk drinkers of Solitude for some time and racked up a 30,000 gold bounty.

I have, and I think people understand perfectly. But as I said, wher would you place such checkpoints?

I think using Skyrim's three auto saves would probably work to simulate a sort of checkpoint system for the OP.

You can adjust the time in between each save.

Nope. We understand your point 100% and we still disagree.

And that is probably not going to change in this iteration into the series. People kinda like the randomness. They enjoy the unexpected. I think the real problem is, is people lacking the self control or willpower to enforce their own ruleset should they have them.

I know I don't have to save But like I said, I guess it only becomes a problem when the actuall act you save before is random and not based the players skill.

I was just sitting here remembering back when you played games and got all excited because you never knew what was going to happen - I liked that about gaming. Not giving a [censored] because you can always just press f9.. not so much

But anyway, to clarify - I realised that the problem I saw was mostly due to random events being.. well random.

If you have to use actuall player skill to beat something, then like I said - save/load don't becomes a problem.

But why would you like randomness and still like being able to load right before it? Where is the randomness then? Eventually you will succeed.

I think save games are supposed to be there so that if you die, you can try again. Not if the RNG didn't go your way then you can simply make it roll again >.<

Then you can feel free to use the saving that way. It is your game you can do as you wish.

true but there is also another point of view. In skyrim you can quick load if you get send to jail. But if there was check points you just need to exit the game and load at the check point. The only difference is that you need to re-play a longer section so the problem is still there unless you only have a "save and exit" option and no "don't save and exit" ( like Mount & Blade ).

And the sad fact is that the game today don't have the same "experince quality" as the older game had. Now a days it is all about graphics

That's the beauty about the randomness, is you're never sure when or if you should put down a save point. Like I said, I choose when and how I implement my saves. A lot of things still happen between the points in which I save. And in that case where something happens and my last save that I recalled to do was a while ago, I now have to consult my wisdom as to whether or not that's even a profitable venture. More than likely, it's not. Because Randomness.

While I respect your opinion for all that it's worth, you're really not convincing me nor swaying me to your point, as it can be easily rectified by a simple application of self control rather than being forced to adapt to an in-game mechanic.

I should probably go back and edit my first post as I realised the problem was more or less due to something else.. I'm just going to copy-past what I said erlier.

"If you have to use actuall player skill to beat something, then like I said - save/load don't becomes a problem.

But why would you like randomness and still like being able to load right before it? Where is the randomness then? Eventually you will succeed.

I think save games are supposed to be there so that if you die, you can try again. Not if the RNG didn't go your way then you can simply make it roll again >.<"


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And yes, I know "we can save if we want to and we paid for the game so it's up to us how we want to play it"... look I will just accept that this is where gaming is heading I guess. No longer are the game designers willing to give us a rought but rewarding experience, it's all about making everyone happy and making sure none will have to try their hardest.

I remember playing NES games as a kid and being so pissed at some games - saying it wasn't possible to beat this or that - then I did and it was the greatest feeling in the world And w/e came next or w/e beating a boss meant for the rest of your game became just that much more exciting.

Yea I see your point (Still I never said skyrim should have checkpoints >.<) But yea I still see your point lol.

Happens to me all the time though - I always forget to save and have to replay stuff.

Yes, the era of the "Thank you sir may I have another" has ended. That doesn't mean however that games can't continue to be fun. That's the emotion they are intended to elicit. Fun. Enjoyment. If you're going to be bitter and resigning about it like it's the changing of the time, then I don't know what to tell you, chief.

Too many bugs not to have a quick save option. It's really up to each individual player on how they want to use quick save, not really sure why that should bother you unless you can't seem to keep yourself from using the quick save option to avoid death, jail, etc.

I noticed you say that you use quick travel, I absolutely detest quick travel and think it's a major game breaker, but I understand other people just want to get to point A, then point B, without exploring the world in between, so it doesn't bother me that others want to use it, I choose not to.

I see your point just fine. But relying on random save points to add to a sense of 'thrill', as you posted in your original post, is not the answer. The answer is to make the game in some way more difficult for you to achieve that thrill. Gameplay, game mechanics, strategy, environment, enemies...those are all logical ways to increase difficulty in the game. Adding set save points to a dynamic world just doesn't make sense.

Yes, I know - people are cheezy bu nature however I love the excitement of not being in full control of what happens in a game, so If I pick pocket somone and get caught and I can't do [censored] about it - ill just be a bit upset but not in a bad way.

If I pickpocket somone and get caught and knowing I could have saved before, then I just feel stupid for not doing so.

I'm a quiet competetive gamer btw, and not so much a.. well w/e drives people to play singleplayer games other then challange. I don't usually play sp anymore, skyrim is the first in years since I'm an old time morrowind player.

I'm just - not gonna try. Nowhere in the post does it say that I think SKYRIM should have checkpoints, I also said this plenty of times all over this thread explaining what I actually meant.

Some people did get tho, so yay.

As far as I can remember tes has always been that way, it's not really a new concept. And I still try my hardest I hate to re-load an old save.

I would never have guessed you were more a multiplayer person. Shocker, truly.
And no, I'm not spurred by challenge. I'm not a Challenge monkey. Never was, more than likely never will be. What does spurr me on for games like this is a sense of exploration, the illusion of the road under my feet and the imaginary weight of a sword in my hand, with a journal full of adventure and treasure waiting for me. I'm Role-Playing. It's all about the fantasy.

Hehe

Well I will let you know I played Morrowind for atleast a few thousand hours back when it was new, but then multiplayer games werent really an option from home.

And I love fantasy, and there are some other old time RPG series that I used to love (don't want to mention them on bethesda's forum)

I never saw a problem with saving before a challange, I guess saving before a random event that takes 1 sec just felt off to me. Skyrim is what i've been using to try and get back into SP games like the old days with Morrowind.

I'm not much of a roleplayer tho - I'm very picky with how I disign my character as far as looks goes, and how I play him out based on an idea - but not a roleplayer no. Plus I would find that pretty hard to do solo. But yep, more gamer then roleplayer - no question about it.

Also, yes exploration is one of the great things about TES games - but really, there isn't THAT much to explore once you played the game once.

Try this then. Play Skyrim will doing commentary like Mind of Freeman.
You'll be roleplaying in no time.

lmao, been a while since I saw that one.

Also: I think the title of this thread should instead have been. Dear Bethesda, please don't make your games so easy to exploit tyvm. Bye

The niche games tend to be better then the make every one happy games tho IMO. Some people still play Morrowind, not that you can't exploit that game - but it's more of a niche then todays streamlined games.

I mean sure, if you can make good games and still cater to a big audience - fine, good job. But I fail to see how cheating is a good thing and something that is neccesary to please everyone.