Does anyone else feel that the ending foreshadows a conflict between the dragonborn and blades? If you don't follow their exact word, they say you're not welcome in their headquarters. Do you think they would eventually go as far as to send assassins after you?

I don't think they'd go that far but they won't help you anymore unless you help them.

No. But it may be the end of the Blades. Up in the air, I guess. Some players bring new members for them, others resent, (rightfully) having to kill the good dragon as a condition of friendship. Friendship, true friendship, is not 'conditional' is it? The Blades don't even ask the player- they curtail access and materials from the Keep and then inform him he is not being helped until the dragon is dead- hardly the actions of friends. They've become so doctrinaire their worth is questionable.

That's a pretty big leap going from You're not welcome here anymore. to I'm gonna kill you!

Dragons are their enemies. You side with a dragon. You're their enemy.

It's not that big of a leap, really.

I've felt like telling them to lget the hell out of Skyhaven temple if they didn't want to talk to me anymore ever since they gave me the ultimatum, after all, my blood was the key to entering that place, it was left there for me,if anything it was meant for the dragon born, not a couple of fogey breton has beens

I doubt there will be open conflict. You are the only way to permanently kill dragons and the Blades knows that.

Plus that any open conflict with the Dragonkin will be both violent and incredibly short lived - on their end.

What? Why? I love the Blades. It is not "canon" to go against them. Therefore there is no "war", because there was never much conflict with them and my character to begin with. Perhaps it is different for you. But no one is a "bad faction" by default.

Almost every faction gives you an ultimatum and has some shadiness/questionable qualities to that might conflict with your character. I don't why people single out the Blades. Or the Empire for that matter (the shadiness there being that they try to execute you in the beginning). These two aren't any worse than other things asked of you.

If you join the Stormcloaks, then you have to unseat a few decent Jarls who've done nothing to you. If you join the Dark Brotherhood or Theives Guild, you become the peon of some Daedra. Etcetera.

They seem to have totally forgotten about their oath to protect the Dragonborn. That ultimatum seemed awfully out of character, and it came out of nowhere. They seem willing to walk away from a very big part of their history. I wouldn't say there's a war between the Blades and the Dragonborn, but I'd call it the end of a very long friendship. Makes me sad.

I'm not so sure about that, although their final quest will remain in your log if you don't complete it, the dialogue options seem to suggest that the Dragonborn is hesitant to complete their final task.

Those 2 idiots are not blades....Bolar was the last true blade....
"I go forth to meet my death with honour, If you are worthy take up my blade and do the same."

Hestitant and not doing it are two different things. Of course, you should be hesitant, but you can't draw a conclusion of what all players are supposed to do at that point. What would be the point of even having the option then?


I liked the Blades - and like with any faction I choose, it'll probably turn out good in the longrun. Simply because I'm the leader. The funny thing about all of this faction talk is how powerless players make themselves out to be. The Stormcloaks or Imperials aren't necessarily losers if you pick them. Because YOU are the one who would turn the tide of things. The Theives Guild doesn't remain a haven for rats - because you are in charge. The Companions don't necessarily remain enslaved to Hagravens. Because you have a choice of turning that around. Same goes for the Blades. If they're weak now, then they won't be later on.

it would have been nice if there was some sort of "battling against blades recruits" radiant quest that paarthunax gives you if you betray the blades. kinda like how esbern sends you on the dragon slaying quests.

Maybe it'd be a nice feature, but it's even more crappy than going after Paarthunax. I mean, these are your in-game followers.. maybe even in-game friends and spouses.. that YOU sent there. Suddenly, you take orders from a dragon to kill them?

If that's cool with you, then you should never complain about going after Paarthunax.. because it's just as questionable. One shouldn't even complain about getting revenge on Imperials for trying to execute you. It's just as questionable.

well, the way i imagine it, it's like the blades are not what they used to be. and by blades recruits, i mean nameless randomly generated npc's like brotherhood initiates. they would not be people you recruited yourself, because i dont think you even have that option if you side with paarthunax

Ah yeah, you're right.

In any case, I don't think there's much hope for recruitment elsewhere until you come into the picture. The Blades can only be more than what they are only when you choose them to be.

I guess that's my point about all factions. I think when it comes to factions, the Dovahkiin is a reformer. He or She brings anything out from the grave. Empire, Companions, Blades, Theives Guild. So I wouldn't necessarilly judge the Blades too harshly. It just a matter of what appeals to you.

I fixed it for you.

The blades hunted dragons in akavir apparently searching for something and then came to Tamriel where they did the same. In Tamriel they fought the locals too - until they were soundly defeatted at the hands of Reman Cyrodiil. Apparently when brought before Reman - a dragonborn - they declared they had found what they had been seeking and pledged their order to his service.

Even after the dragons were slain or driven out of Tamriel and Reman had passed away the blades continued to serve his descendants - the Septim bloodline.



The Septim bloodline ended with Martin Septim during the Oblivion Crisis, which left the Blades without a dragonborn to protect - but they began searching anyway just in case some offshoot of the Septim dynasty had survived in some obscure place. Then they encounter the Dovahkiin - dragonborn, and suddenly they once again have a dragonborn to lead them and to protect...

...and that's where it gets weird. Because they suddenly refuse their sacred duty on the basis the new Dragonborn isn't so big on the "let's slay all the dragons and let Akatosh sort them out" mindset that Reman held - while this might seem like a fair point, Reman was a big shot dragonslayer, bare in mind none of Reman's descendants ever so much as SAW a dragon. And the blades upheld their pledge to protect them without any quibbles. To me this seems like a huge contuinuity hole and I really REALLY hope Betehsda notes down how nobody wants to save the blades and reflects this in TES6 instead of dredging them up to save the world AGAIN.

Or better still, recharacterise the blades as an anti-heroic faction in future DLC/games, a faction who thinks they're doing stuff for the greater good when really they're just off their rockers

Completely agree! My thoughts march with yours exactly....

Your reasoning is cool, but I still don't like canon talk. To each their own, but just... I don't the storyline dictated to me.

I already have had enough of it in Dragon Age discussions. Some people think Morrigan and her dark ritual is canon, simply because she's on the game cover and the ritual makes a big plot point. I say to hell with Morrigan. I don't like people like her in real life, and I don't like them in video games. I don't see the appeal at all. Leliana was more entertaining, and dark rituals are lame. Another thing people assume is Loghain's death. As if he's some big bad villain. I don't think so. He's more like Darth Vader to me. And if it was canon for him to die, then they wouldn't have tons of dialogue with him if you redeem him. And as far as "covers" go, he's on a cover and the star of one of their novels, if I wanted to twist this around.

But I digress. To be honest, I like the Blades simply because they're the some of the best actors in the game. Max Von Sydow is legendary. I can't side against him. Christopher Plummer is cool too, but not quite as cool. Besides that, I'm now playing a Nord mage. Esbern seems like a fitting mentor now that I think about it.

The Blades are a shadow of their former self. I help them anyways because this whole "Way of the Voice" is incredibly weak to me. My philosophy in Skyrim is: If you have power, use it to serve some cause that will affect others.

Seriously, the Greybeards could've stepped in at any time and Fus Ro Dah'ed the entire Thalmor into submission. But no, because of their Way of the Voice, they don't and to me, that's the stupidest thing anybody could ever do. Have the ability to do something for a cause they believe in (peace) but don't.

So the Blades, I help but really, they don't have the power but at least they aren't Greybeards. For the Blades, YOU are their leader technically since YOU'RE Dragonborn. So they hate the Thalmor and if I bring some recruits, then they'd resurrect the Blades that way.

..

Then they should act like it by not giving 'ultimatums'. Like was said, it was MY blood that opened that place. It belongs to ME. I'll take what I want from there. If you decide to aggro and place a bounty on me for it (which they will do if you don't kill Parthurnaax), go for it. I'll FUS ROH DAH you all over the place just for fun.

There may be something to the way of the voice more than just mystic mumbo jumbo. When the Nords took their voice to conquer other lands they were thoroughly destroyed, the voice didn't work as well as it should. it was after much meditation they decided that the voice only worked properly when used for great acts worthy of the gods.... whether they were right is of much debate. But it seems unlikely that even an army of thu'um bearers could take on the Aldmeri Dominion if the same "issue" that thwarted them before were to strike again.

Your quote also reminds me a little of one of the guards in Deus Ex (the one that didn't svck) if you took the peaceful approach. "If I had abilities like yours I wouldn't be using it to save terrorist's lives!". It's an eternal paradox, when you don't have power you'll use every tool available. But if you are in a position of power, it is up to you to use that power responsibly. This is why the average guy on the street might shout "just nuke the bastards!" in exasperation when some terrorist attack or minor act of war is commited, and yet nuclear weapons DON'T actually get launched by those with the power to use them

It's because they don't believe their power should be used in such a way.

I see it a lot like God in some ways, where it's all just a test and instead of relying on some immensely powerful force to come save you every time things get a little hairy, you have to rise up to the challenge yourself. Skyrim can't depend on the power of the Greybeards forever, nor can they depend on the Voice (the Nords were defeated by the Chimer and Dwemer back when a lot of them had the power of the Voice, after all). That's probably not the best comparison though, since they do kind of come off as being a little too.. useless, but you still can't really blame them for that.

Honestly though, the Blades need to kind of.. disappear after all of this. Bethesda make a huge mistake with how they handled things, and it got on a lot of nerves. Wouldn't be the best idea for them to bring it all back in the next game.

The Blades have been around since Arena. They're not going away anytime soon.

I doubt the Empire will either. TES isn't going to become some Nord centric universe, with Greybeards replacing Blades and Stormcloaks replacing Imps. I like playing Nords, but that would be super-lame.