Weapon Carry Limit - a new hardcoe mode suggestion : Fallout: New Vegas

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:29 pm

Realistic carry restrictions should be added to the "hardcoe" rules, but put into a new mode called Realism: For players who want a real challenge

» Tue May 10, 2011 11:34 pm

This has become a particular obsession of mine, so I hope you will indulge me for bit while you read this. There is a lot of conversation on these forums about difficulty levels. Rightly so, the game must be a challenge. hardcoe mode is certainly a step in the right direction, though other than periodically checking your H20 and sleep levels, there isn't much else to it.

In my opinion, any tweaks to hardcoe mode are only skirting around the edges, at least in terms of difficulty. My opinion is that the biggest advantage that the player character has over every other enemy in the game is this - the amount of weapons that you can carry. In my opinion, being able to call upon any weapon you want, whether it be a Gatling Laser, Shotgun, Rifle, Super Sledge etc at any point during the game, for any situation you may find yourself in, is a tremendous advantage that no enemy in the game can even come close to matching. In my view, being able to carry multiple weapons like this should be one of those insane perks you get by reaching level 30. Or, at the very least, an option you can toggle on/off at the beginning of the game, rather then being the default setup.

So let me suggest the following, its a way of redressing the balance, meaning that you can only carry what any other NPC can carry. More or less, anyway. Simply put, you can only carry three active weapons at any one time, consisting of the following -

- one dual-handed rifle/shotgun (Commando perk),

- and any two from the pistol (Gunslinger perk), Melee, or Unarmed categories.

You can substitute one of these with any weapon you find on your travels, but you must leave your current weapon (that occupies its slot) behind in this case. Of course, picking up a weapon to use it immediately for repair is fine. So, this means no stockpiling weapons for caps - after all, there are plenty of other ways to get caps in FNV.

So, who is with me on this? On your next playthrough (I don't recommend it on the first one, at least), why not give it a try?

I already do this with my characters. I usually only allow myself to carry one pistol, one melee weapon and one rifle or big gun type weapon and a couple of grenades. I usually keep my carry weight well below 100 at all times and it does make the game more realistic and challenging. Another thing I do in all of my games is never use stimpaks or doctors bags, doctors or beds that heal wounded limbs. Basically, if my character ever gets crippled in any area then he stays that way for the remainder of the playthrough and of course I play with perma death on very hard diffculty too, so if I die i have to restart from the beginning.

Ultimately, im almost positive that 99% of people would not enjoy playing their game the way I do. So, while I would appreciate hardcoe mode being more "hardcoe" and all, I also understand that its just not feasible for most people. I have learned over the years that if I ever want to make a Bethesda style game harder then I can do that myself without needing mods or special difficulty levels.

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:12 am

I usually carry 3 main weapon with me. Not because I want to limit myself but rather because it's what I use. Saying that I carry a lot of weapons to give me a tactical choice is just an illusion. I end up using the same weapons over and over. An AR or sniper, a close quarter and a melee for when I don't want to spend ammo on the target. The rest are not used even remotely. For example, I carried a shotgun with me all of my FO3 1st playtrough and I don't think I ever killed anything with it. That's not a tactical choice, it's inventory cluttering. Maybe some like to use a real arsenal but I have 2 real favorite, a 9mm pistol(the unique one) and my trusty hunting rifle. Some may argue that the weight limit should be lowered and it's true that when you look a it carrying over 200 pounds of stuff all the while hoofing around mojave desert seems a bit of the chart, but one should think of what would happen in the case you are limited to a more realistic value. If you transpose that to gameplay, you will constantly face situation where you have to make 2-3 trip back and forth to haul loot out of dungeon(Oblivion anyone?). Realistic? Sure thing! Fun? I think not. that's why the weight limit is 'so' high. To keep the game fun. Remember. When you say that a game is well balanced, it mean that it's fun for every type of char. Fallout:NV is not a realistic game and will never be. Try ARMA for that.

Regards.

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:55 am

To me weight is weight. The number of weapons I carry isn't really a factor that effects combat difficulty, as I can easily deal with combat situations with only a couple weapons. It's purely economic ... weapons are the most readily available sellable loot in the Wastelands. Being in a situation where I couldn't pick up that tri-beam laser a recently killed foe was carrying because I was at my weapon limit, but being able to pick up and haul off his power armor would just annoy me to no end. :meh:

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:58 pm

To me weight is weight. The number of weapons I carry isn't really a factor that effects combat difficulty, as I can easily deal with combat situations with only a couple weapons. It's purely economic ... weapons are the most readily available sellable loot in the Wastelands. Being in a situation where I couldn't pick up that tri-beam laser a recently killed foe was carrying because I was at my weapon limit, but being able to pick up and haul off his power armor would just annoy me to no end. :meh:

Well, ideally you would not be able to carry the power armour either (unless you're prepared to wear it and drop your current armour). In my vision of this new 'Realism/Survival' mode the weapon/armour limits would be severely restricted, since these allow too many combat options and are an easy source of caps.

Also, in cases like the Super Sledge or Rebar Club - these are so large that they would occupy the slot of the Rifle/Shotgun (as they have to be carried on the back). But these are specifics really, to keep things simple, my current proposal is easy to follow.

Maybe the whole weight proportions are completely out - for example, a Sniper Rifle weight 8 lbs, yet a fresh carrot weighs 1 lb....are we really saying that carrying a large and powerful weapon such as this is the equivalent of carrying eight carrots? :huh: Having never held a sniper rifle before, I cannot say for sure, but I would imagine that the weight of the Anti-Materiel rifle of 20, is more realistic, but just for the Sniper alone. Maybe even that is too low.

Also, die once, and the game is over. This idea intrigues me most of all - actually picking your fights, or avoiding combat altogether, as the situation warrants. Knowing that your next footstep into unknown territory could be your last. Couple this to the weapon carry limit, and we are talking about a real hardcoe/realism/survival mode.

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:34 am

Maybe for hardcoe only.

IF they did that, I think the best way to make it work would be to have about three “active” weapons at any given time, and have those weapons displayed on the character. (ME2) You could still carry other weapons in your inventory (to sell, keep, or use for parts) you just couldn’t switch your load-out until you reached some predetermined location.

IF.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Maybe for hardcoe only.

IF they did that, I think the best way to make it work would be to have about three “active” weapons at any given time, and have those weapons displayed on the character. (ME2) You could still carry other weapons in your inventory (to sell, keep, or use for parts) you just couldn’t switch your load-out until you reached some predetermined location.

IF.

Possibly, yes. All of my suggestions so far would be optional - ideally enabled/disabled in the settings via an on/off toggle. So you only include the bits that you want.

But your idea of not switching weapons is good, just using hotkeyed items (max 3 or 4). Perhaps even blocking use of the Pip-Boy altogether until your status returns to [CAUTION]. Maybe. :shrug:

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:22 pm

An actual weapon carry limit is a big no in my book.

A better alternative is reducing carry weight. Base carry weight is 150! Reducing it to to 50 is a nice start. Adding weight to medicine and rebalancing misc weight (generally lower), might go a long way to make weight balancing more important.
Another good suggestion which somebody already suggested here is an access slot. Several weapons and medicine/food item slots which you can access at any time say three or four for weapons, four for consumables. Can't use pipboy during combat, meaning you can't change the items in the slots.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:01 pm

Maybe the whole weight proportions are completely out - for example, a Sniper Rifle weight 8 lbs, yet a fresh carrot weighs 1 lb....are we really saying that carrying a large and powerful weapon such as this is the equivalent of carrying eight carrots? :huh: Having never held a sniper rifle before, I cannot say for sure, but I would imagine that the weight of the Anti-Materiel rifle of 20, is more realistic, but just for the Sniper alone. Maybe even that is too low.

8 pounds for a 7.62x51mm sniper rifle rifle is plausible but that would be just the rifle alone. Add some ammo, a scope, and other equipment like a bipod or suppressor, and you're talking more like 15 to 20 pounds for the entire system. And 20 pounds for a .50 BMG anti-material rifle is kind of light; 25 to 30 pounds is more plausible (again, only for the weapon itself sans optics or ammo). Some anti-material rifles actually break down into parts for easier carrying.

The carrot, in this case, weighs too much. Carrots are often sold in 1 pound bags which is is probably 6 to 12 individual carrots. 8 pounds of carrots is... a pretty significant amount.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:48 pm

I didn't mind the way STALKER did it (as has been mentioned)--you had active weapon slots that you could switch quickly between, and everything else was in your backpack, which is accessed in real-time without pausing the game.

You could still carry more weapons, but switching to them during combat was a challenge unless you could hide for a few moments.

Also, the overall carry-weight limit was around 50 lbs, and all items (including ammo and healing items) had weight. This system worked to limit what you could carry without preventing you from gathering guns along with the other loot available.

STALKER had one of the best inventory systems I've used. It limited your load-out in a realistic way without limiting your play-style or character specialization. If I want to be a walking-arsenal-type character, I can fill my backpack with guns and ammo, and if I want to be a charismatic smooth-talker or a pacifist scavenger, I can carry nothing but a pistol, and keep the rest of my inventory free for loot.

» Tue May 10, 2011 1:57 pm

Possibly, yes. All of my suggestions so far would be optional - ideally enabled/disabled in the settings via an on/off toggle. So you only include the bits that you want.

But your idea of not switching weapons is good, just using hotkeyed items (max 3 or 4). Perhaps even blocking use of the Pip-Boy altogether until your status returns to [CAUTION]. Maybe. :shrug:

You just gotta remember that many people who are into games like this are into them because they like to play the game how ever they want, so some people are always gonna say heck-no from the get-go.

I’m that way too, but I think if it was done right (something like how I suggested of course), I could get into it as an option.

» Tue May 10, 2011 9:43 pm

The real advantage the player has is pausing time, not how many guns he/she can carry. Accessing the PIPboy in real-time, and not being allowed to read magazines or do repairs in the middle of combat would go a long way to upping the challenge.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:38 pm

Rightly so, the game must be a challenge.

You forgot to add "in my opinion". I like playing the Fallout games for the story. I don't need the game to be difficult to enjoy the story.
Also, nothing is stopping you from imposing crazy rules on your self whenever you feel like it. Don't want to be allowed to switch weapons in combat? Simple! Don't switch weapons in combat. Don't want to be allowed to pick up so many guns? Use self control and don't pick up so many guns. (etc, you get the idea).

» Tue May 10, 2011 10:56 pm

If hardcoe makes us require food and such it might as well make weight capacity and item weights more realistic as well.

» Wed May 11, 2011 3:51 am

You forgot to add "in my opinion". I like playing the Fallout games for the story. I don't need the game to be difficult to enjoy the story.
Also, nothing is stopping you from imposing crazy rules on your self whenever you feel like it. Don't want to be allowed to switch weapons in combat? Simple! Don't switch weapons in combat. Don't want to be allowed to pick up so many guns? Use self control and don't pick up so many guns. (etc, you get the idea).

"Crazy rules?!" I do like the flexability of Fallout, but -

This is exactly why winower put this forth as a “hardcoe suggestion” – jeez. Some of us enjoy a challenge.

Speaking of ironman and other suggestions, something I enjoy for a challenge is not using the pip-boy when seen by an enemy. If it’s not “hot-keyed”, tough luck, it can’t be used until all enemies are cleared; no game pausing in the middle of combat. I find this very enjoyable, kind of puts me on the edge of my seat.

» Tue May 10, 2011 6:17 pm

"Crazy rules?!" I do like the flexability of Fallout, but -

I used the word "crazy" since that word was used in the poll by the OP.

» Tue May 10, 2011 8:48 pm

No, go straight to hell for suggesting this.

» Tue May 10, 2011 8:17 pm

No, go straight to hell for suggesting this.

???

» Wed May 11, 2011 2:38 am

No, go straight to hell for suggesting this.

Too harsh! :cryvaultboy:

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:45 am

I already limit myself somewhat, although I do carry those extra weapons for sale or storage, not active use. I usually set my Strength to 4 or less to limit the carrying capacity anyways (with the side effect of weapon handling sway), and am not a horder of ammo (I still carry more ammo than is realistic but I try to keep it less than 100 rounds per weapon--that's still almost 400 rounds! I allow myself the luxury of two rifles and two hand guns, which is a bit unrealistic, but hey, I figure I could keep one slung over my shoulder and one in my hands.

I do like the idea of keeping things more realistic, but in the end, it is a game. Keeping things from being too cumbersome is always key to my having fun, so I'll always fudge just a little. I especially like the concept of carrying the right weapon for your character.

My guy is a bit of a survivalist so his starting line up is as follows:

Ratslayer for sniping
Cowboy Repeater for shoot 'em ups
.357 Revolver for close encounters
Mysterious Magnum for soundtrack

I'll have to try and ditch that Cowboy Repeater to conform to your suggestion.

» Wed May 11, 2011 12:32 am

I like this idea, but this game was clearly designed to be largely about scavenging for things to sell and use for repairs. (How could you ever repair your own rifle if you're not allowed to pick up another rifle?) I think you'd need to see some major changes to how inventory management works at all before you could really have this work in a balanced way, like making it so you can pick up unusable parts of weapons instead of full weapons.

Personally, my (self-imposed) approach to this has been to restrict what I am able to have HOTKEYS for, and I tend to only change weapons or armor when I'm back in one of my safehouses.

One weapon that fits across the back (a rifle, a two-handed shotgun, a two-handed melee weapon, a "big gun," etc.)
One weapon that is worn on the right hip (a pistol, SMG, or sawed-off shotgun)
One weapon that is worn on the left hip (a one-handed melee weapon)
One holdout weapon (even if it's worn elsewhere, as presumably it's hidden on my person)
Binoculars (because I just want every hotkey on the Xbox d-pad filled)
Stimpacks (the only healing item that seems plausible to whip out and use in a jiffy)
And up to a few grenades (which are "worn" on the hip but I could see clipping them to a belt)

I have a few standard loadouts depending on where I'm headed and how much I want to feel challenged. I play a VATS-heavy Guns character with Shotgun Surgeon, so some gun include This Machine/Big Boomer, Dinner Bell/Maria, Riot Shotgun/Silenced 12mm Pistol, etc. I tend to use Chance's Knife or Liberator on the left hip and Throwing Knives or Figaro as a holdout weapon (though I just got Sneak over 50 so I may carry around Chance's Knife or Maria all the time now).

» Wed May 11, 2011 3:32 am

How about this: reduce the total carry weight by 1/3, and let us by a pack brahmin. That way, my pack mule wont kill everything with his scoped hunting rifle before I get to smash it with my axe (yes, Boone, I'm looking at you.)

I have often thought this would be a good idea. Reduce carry limits, increase relative weight of items to be more plausible or to reflect larger sizes (a full bottle of beer weighs as much as an empty syringe, and I can carry dozens of full cigarette cartons?), and sell PCs items that exist specifically to carry items. I've always pined after those pack brahmin, but seeing duffel bags (with carrying straps!) everywhere in New Vegas was an even worse tease.