The damage you used previously was 31.7 * 1.5 (better criticals) + 31.7 = 79.25 damage per projectile and then you multiplied it by 3 = 237.75. Max charge multiplier is 1.75 and 237.75 x 1.75 = 416.0625 instead of 459.38 unless my calculator is going crazy. I suspect the reason you got this number is because you used numbers 35 x 1.5 +35 = 87.5 -> 87.5 x 1.75 = 459.38 which is closer to truth but you are still dividing the bonus critical damage 105 by 3 when you should just use 105.

And that is not how you factor in DT with shotgun like weapons. The DT is subracted from all 3 projectiles before any other multipliers like ammo or sneak attacks and whatnot as far as I know. So with DT of 30 and max charge ammo you would do using your numbers (79.25 - 30) x 3 x 1.75 = 258.5625 damage with crit x3 instead of 429.38 that you got.

Headshot multiplies damage by 2 if it hasnt been changed from Fallout 3 but as I said in my example, I wasnt doing headshots with multiplas. I was just hitting the body so we shouldnt use headshot multiplier to determine the damage done.

Sneak attack indeed multiplies the damage done by the attack by 2 so that is correct. But even if using the very likely incorrect value of 429.38, multiplying it with 2 for sneak attack it does 858.76 damage while as I said the damage required to kill the deathclaw in one shot in my calculations is 1700.

And to make it a bit clearer, I was doing these test on VERY HARD where damage done by player is cut in half. I did this because Legendary deathclaw wasnt durable enough on normal for me to run all the tests I wanted. In my tests instead of halving my damage in calculations I instead doubled the deathclaws effective hp bringing it to 850 x 2 = 1700 because it doesnt matter which one you do and this way damage calculations are more easibly comparable to damage values in normal difficulty. That is why im using 1700 damage as the threshold where you oneshot the deathclaw.

If you want to be sure just pick up YCS/186 and multiplas, head into the legendary deathclaws nest with some max charge and normal ammo and run some tests of you own. You will see that with sneak crits multiplas deals considerably more damage than YCS/186. Then you can count how much damage you in reality did with your YCS (a lot easier than multiplas damage calculations) and compare them to your own multiplas damage calculations AND to the results you got from that cave and you see that the numbers you got from your multiplas calculations just cant be correct.

Okay, so in general, these are the forumulas SomethingToPonder?

Normal Damage = (BaseDamage/NumberOfProjectiles - DT) * NumberOfProjectiles * AmmoMultiplier

Critical Damage = (BaseDamage/NumberOfProjectiles + CriticalDamage * 1.5 - DT) * NumberOfProjectiles * AmmoMultiplier

I multiply the critical damage by 1.5 because of better criticals. Is this the right spot to do that in?

Are these formulas correct?

By the way, thanks so much for the help. You're totally getting credit in the guide for helping out!

Yeah, I think those formulas are correct. And it is good that you are putting in the effort to do that guide, keep it up.

Yippie!

I did the first set of calculations for 0 DT (actually I did them all but I want to make sure that these are correct).

Does this look right? Multiplas has INSANE critical damage. Like, I'm giddy if this is actually correct.

   .---------------------.------------.--------.----------.---------.---------.   | WEAPON              | AMMO       | CRT %  | BASE DMG | CRT DMG | AVG DPS |   |---------------------|------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|   | Plasma Caster+      | MF MC      |  20.0% |   113.75 |  284.38 |  635.86 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC MC      |  75.0% |   142.50 |  285.00 |**498.75 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF OC      |  20.0% |    81.25 |  203.13 |  454.19 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G Magnum |  20.0% |    89.36 |  210.11 |  454.02 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC MC      |  45.0% |    98.80 |  227.05 |  426.86 |   | Gobi                | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    90.00 |  225.00 |  397.77 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G        |  20.0% |    77.70 |  182.70 |  394.80 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF         |  20.0% |    65.00 |  162.50 |  388.70 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    93.00 |  232.50 |  372.00 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC OC      |  75.0% |   105.00 |  210.00 |**367.50 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC OC      |  45.0% |    72.80 |  167.30 |  314.53 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC         |  75.0% |    86.25 |  172.50 |**301.88 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF MC      |  20.0% |   183.75 | 1010.63 |  296.76 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70 SWC |  20.0% |   108.75 |  271.88 |  292.67 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF MC      |  40.0% |    56.00 |  218.75 |  290.64 |   | This Machine        | .308 JSP   |  20.0% |    97.50 |  243.75 |  271.05 |   | Gobi                | .308       | 100.0% |    60.00 |  150.00 |  265.18 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC         |  45.0% |    59.80 |  137.43 |  258.36 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70     |  20.0% |    93.75 |  234.38 |  252.30 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308       | 100.0% |    62.00 |  155.00 |  248.00 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70 SWC |  30.0% |   101.50 |  236.35 |  238.48 |   | YCS/186             | MF MC      |  40.0% |   245.00 |  428.75 |  215.62 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF OC      |  20.0% |   131.25 |  721.88 |  211.97 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF OC      |  40.0% |    40.00 |  156.25 |  207.60 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70     |  30.0% |    87.50 |  203.75 |  205.59 |   | All-American        | .556mm     |  20.0% |    26.00 |   65.00 |  202.80 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44 SWC    |  20.0% |    60.90 |  152.25 |  192.98 |   | All-American        | .556mm AP  |  20.0% |    24.70 |   61.75 |  192.66 |   | This Machine        | .308       |  20.0% |    65.00 |  162.50 |  180.70 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF         |  20.0% |   105.00 |  577.50 |  169.58 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44        |  20.0% |    52.50 |  131.25 |  166.36 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF         |  40.0% |    32.00 |  125.00 |  166.08 |   | YCS/186             | MF OC      |  40.0% |   175.00 |  306.25 |  154.02 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm JHP  |  20.0% |    39.60 |  101.48 |  142.93 |   | YCS/186             | MF         |  40.0% |   140.00 |  245.00 |  123.21 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm      |  20.0% |    24.00 |   61.50 |   86.63 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50 Match  |  20.0% |   126.50 |  264.50 |   69.00 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50        |  20.0% |   110.00 |  230.00 |   60.00 |   '---------------------'------------'--------'----------'---------'---------'

Here's the same stats, but when the enemy has 30 DT factored in.

The Riot Shotgun doesn't really do 0 damage, does it? No, of course not. Is there some kind of cap that I should be taking into account?

I'll try and hunt the formulas down but if you can offer insight as to why these formulas are working out this way, that'd be great. It seems that subtracting DT from each projectile is really harsh and is not what is happening in the game.

   .---------------------.------------.--------.----------.---------.---------.   | WEAPON              | AMMO       | CRT %  | BASE DMG | CRT DMG | AVG DPS |   |---------------------|------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|   | Plasma Caster+      | MF MC      |  20.0% |    61.25 |  231.88 |  410.11 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC MC      |  75.0% |    85.50 |  228.00 |  384.75 |   | Gobi                | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    45.00 |  180.00 |  318.21 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    48.00 |  187.50 |  300.00 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF OC      |  20.0% |    43.75 |  165.63 |  292.94 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC OC      |  75.0% |    63.00 |  168.00 |  283.50 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF         |  20.0% |    35.00 |  132.50 |  250.70 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC         |  75.0% |    51.75 |  138.00 |  232.88 |   | Gobi                | .308       | 100.0% |    30.00 |  120.00 |  212.14 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70 SWC |  20.0% |    65.25 |  228.38 |  202.62 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308       | 100.0% |    32.00 |  125.00 |  200.00 |   | YCS/186             | MF MC      |  40.0% |   192.50 |  376.25 |  180.08 |   | This Machine        | .308 JSP   |  20.0% |    52.50 |  198.75 |  174.82 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70     |  20.0% |    56.25 |  196.88 |  174.67 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70 SWC |  30.0% |    58.00 |  192.85 |  165.40 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF MC      |  40.0% |     3.50 |  166.25 |  164.64 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF MC      |  20.0% |    26.25 |  853.13 |  162.88 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70     |  30.0% |    50.00 |  166.25 |  142.59 |   | YCS/186             | MF OC      |  40.0% |   137.50 |  268.75 |  128.63 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF OC      |  40.0% |     2.50 |  118.75 |  117.60 |   | This Machine        | .308       |  20.0% |    35.00 |  132.50 |  116.55 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF OC      |  20.0% |    18.75 |  609.38 |  116.34 |   | All-American        | .556mm AP  |  20.0% |    10.45 |   47.50 |  107.16 |   | YCS/186             | MF         |  40.0% |   110.00 |  215.00 |  102.90 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF         |  40.0% |     2.00 |   95.00 |   94.08 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF         |  20.0% |    15.00 |  487.50 |   93.08 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44 SWC    |  20.0% |    17.40 |  108.75 |   86.95 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44        |  20.0% |    15.00 |   93.75 |   74.95 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC MC      |  45.0% |     0.00 |   56.05 |   68.79 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50 Match  |  20.0% |    92.00 |  230.00 |   53.55 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC OC      |  45.0% |     0.00 |   41.30 |   50.69 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50        |  20.0% |    80.00 |  200.00 |   46.57 |   | All-American        | .556mm     |  20.0% |     0.00 |   35.00 |   42.00 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC         |  45.0% |     0.00 |   33.93 |   41.64 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G Magnum |  20.0% |     0.00 |   49.11 |   39.28 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G        |  20.0% |     0.00 |   42.70 |   34.16 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm JHP  |  20.0% |     0.00 |   51.98 |   28.59 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm      |  20.0% |     0.00 |   31.50 |   17.33 |   '---------------------'------------'--------'----------'---------'---------'

Okay, I found a section on the wiki that says:

Damage negated in this way will never be reduced below 20% of the weapon's original damage value.

I'm curious WHERE in the formula it does this. Does it do this before it applies the ammo multiplier?

Also, what *is* the "weapon's original damage value"? Is that BaseDamage / NumberOfProjectiles? or just the base damage?

Also, what happens when the critical hit is less than 20% of the base damage? Does the critical hit also become the base damage? - effectively appearing like no critical hit occured at all?

Okay, here's the section on DPS. I hope the formulas are right. I'm just going with my gut as to what the developers most likely did - the thing that made the most given how the formulas work. If there's something glaringly wrong, by all means, please mention it:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   3.02 - Average DPS Chart--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   A lot of places online will give you stats for base damage, critical damage   and DPS for regular ammo rounds, but this data is often useless for in-game,   practical purposes.   This chart will give you a good visual of not only the damage you can expect   for the various weapons with different ammo types, but it'll show you the   Average DPS you will get with critical hits factored in based on the weapon's   critical multiplier.   In a nutshell, this information presents a far more accurate view of what   actually happens in-game. Once again, you'll not find this anywhere else on   the Internet!    Like this VATS Chart, this chart assumes that your character has the Finesse   and Better Criticals perks, has Luck score of 10, and is using the 1st Recon   Beret. The Laser Commander and Cowboy perks are also assumed for their   respective weapons.   NOTE: Pew-Pew's Average DPS appears to be a lot higher than it actually is         because while you'll get 2 fairly fast shots, you are forced to reload         due to your small clip size. This actually really slows you down in         practice, so the value is very deceiving. I indicate this with **'s         next to it's value.         In practice, Plasma Caster+ and Gobi both have a much higher DPS         compared to Pew-Pew.   .---------------------.------------.--------.----------.---------.---------.   | WEAPON              | AMMO       | CRT %  | BASE DMG | CRT DMG | AVG DPS |   |---------------------|------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|   | Plasma Caster+      | MF MC      |  20.0% |   113.75 |  284.38 |  635.86 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC MC      |  75.0% |   142.50 |  285.00 |**498.75 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF OC      |  20.0% |    81.25 |  203.13 |  454.19 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G Magnum |  20.0% |    89.36 |  210.11 |  454.02 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC MC      |  45.0% |    98.80 |  227.05 |  426.86 |   | Gobi                | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    90.00 |  225.00 |  397.77 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G        |  20.0% |    77.70 |  182.70 |  394.80 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF         |  20.0% |    65.00 |  162.50 |  388.70 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    93.00 |  232.50 |  372.00 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC OC      |  75.0% |   105.00 |  210.00 |**367.50 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC OC      |  45.0% |    72.80 |  167.30 |  314.53 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC         |  75.0% |    86.25 |  172.50 |**301.88 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF MC      |  20.0% |   183.75 | 1010.63 |  296.76 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70 SWC |  20.0% |   108.75 |  271.88 |  292.67 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF MC      |  40.0% |    56.00 |  218.75 |  290.64 |   | This Machine        | .308 JSP   |  20.0% |    97.50 |  243.75 |  271.05 |   | Gobi                | .308       | 100.0% |    60.00 |  150.00 |  265.18 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC         |  45.0% |    59.80 |  137.43 |  258.36 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70     |  20.0% |    93.75 |  234.38 |  252.30 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308       | 100.0% |    62.00 |  155.00 |  248.00 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70 SWC |  30.0% |   101.50 |  236.35 |  238.48 |   | YCS/186             | MF MC      |  40.0% |   245.00 |  428.75 |  215.62 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF OC      |  20.0% |   131.25 |  721.88 |  211.97 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF OC      |  40.0% |    40.00 |  156.25 |  207.60 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70     |  30.0% |    87.50 |  203.75 |  205.59 |   | All-American        | .556mm     |  20.0% |    26.00 |   65.00 |  202.80 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44 SWC    |  20.0% |    60.90 |  152.25 |  192.98 |   | All-American        | .556mm AP  |  20.0% |    24.70 |   61.75 |  192.66 |   | This Machine        | .308       |  20.0% |    65.00 |  162.50 |  180.70 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF         |  20.0% |   105.00 |  577.50 |  169.58 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44        |  20.0% |    52.50 |  131.25 |  166.36 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF         |  40.0% |    32.00 |  125.00 |  166.08 |   | YCS/186             | MF OC      |  40.0% |   175.00 |  306.25 |  154.02 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm JHP  |  20.0% |    39.60 |  101.48 |  142.93 |   | YCS/186             | MF         |  40.0% |   140.00 |  245.00 |  123.21 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm      |  20.0% |    24.00 |   61.50 |   86.63 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50 Match  |  20.0% |   126.50 |  264.50 |   69.00 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50        |  20.0% |   110.00 |  230.00 |   60.00 |   '---------------------'------------'--------'----------'---------'---------'--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   3.03 - Average DPS vs 30 DT Chart--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   While the Average DPS chart in section 3.02 is all well in good, it's only   accurate against targets which don't have any armor. Most of those enemies   are pretty easy to kill except for Cazadors.   A more practical chart is one that factors in the enemy's Damage Threshold   (DT) values, because an enemy's DT will significantly reduce the amount of   damage per shot that you deal to the target.   In this chart, we'll assume that we are up against enemies with a whopping 30   DT. Enemies like Deathclaws, Super Mutant Masters and Mr. Gutsies have 30 DT   and are difficult to take out with SMGs or low-damage weapons. Some enemies   like Giant Rad Scorpions and Sentry Bots have 36 DT, but this chart will give   you a close enough approximation of what to expect against those.   NOTE: The Shotgun Surgeon Perk is assumed for the Riot Shotgun, which negates         10 DT.   .---------------------.------------.--------.----------.---------.---------.   | WEAPON              | AMMO       | CRT %  | BASE DMG | CRT DMG | AVG DPS |   |---------------------|------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|   | Plasma Caster+      | MF MC      |  20.0% |    61.25 |  231.88 |  410.11 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC MC      |  75.0% |    85.50 |  228.00 |  384.75 |   | Gobi                | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    45.00 |  180.00 |  318.21 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    48.00 |  187.50 |  300.00 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF OC      |  20.0% |    43.75 |  165.63 |  292.94 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC OC      |  75.0% |    63.00 |  168.00 |  283.50 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF         |  20.0% |    35.00 |  132.50 |  250.70 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC         |  75.0% |    51.75 |  138.00 |  232.88 |   | Gobi                | .308       | 100.0% |    30.00 |  120.00 |  212.14 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70 SWC |  20.0% |    65.25 |  228.38 |  202.62 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308       | 100.0% |    32.00 |  125.00 |  200.00 |   | YCS/186             | MF MC      |  40.0% |   192.50 |  376.25 |  180.08 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF MC      |  40.0% |    11.20 |  166.25 |  175.73 |   | This Machine        | .308 JSP   |  20.0% |    52.50 |  198.75 |  174.82 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70     |  20.0% |    56.25 |  196.88 |  174.67 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF MC      |  20.0% |    36.75 |  853.13 |  170.02 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70 SWC |  30.0% |    58.00 |  192.85 |  165.40 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70     |  30.0% |    50.00 |  166.25 |  142.59 |   | YCS/186             | MF OC      |  40.0% |   137.50 |  268.75 |  128.63 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF OC      |  40.0% |     8.00 |  118.75 |  125.52 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF OC      |  20.0% |    26.25 |  609.38 |  121.44 |   | This Machine        | .308       |  20.0% |    35.00 |  132.50 |  116.55 |   | All-American        | .556mm AP  |  20.0% |    10.45 |   47.50 |  107.16 |   | YCS/186             | MF         |  40.0% |   110.00 |  215.00 |  102.90 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF         |  40.0% |     6.40 |   95.00 |  100.42 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC MC      |  45.0% |    19.76 |   56.05 |   98.43 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF         |  20.0% |    21.00 |  487.50 |   97.16 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G Magnum |  20.0% |    17.87 |   49.11 |   96.47 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44 SWC    |  20.0% |    17.40 |  108.75 |   86.95 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G        |  20.0% |    15.54 |   42.70 |   83.89 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44        |  20.0% |    15.00 |   93.75 |   74.95 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC OC      |  45.0% |    14.56 |   41.30 |   72.53 |   | All-American        | .556mm     |  20.0% |     5.20 |   35.00 |   66.96 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC         |  45.0% |    11.96 |   33.93 |   59.58 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50 Match  |  20.0% |    92.00 |  230.00 |   53.55 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50        |  20.0% |    80.00 |  200.00 |   46.57 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm JHP  |  20.0% |     7.92 |   51.98 |   46.01 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm      |  20.0% |     4.80 |   31.50 |   27.89 |   '---------------------'------------'--------'----------'---------'---------'   As you can see, low-damage pistols like the Weathered 10mm Pistol or the   Mysterious Magnum take a huge hit. Also, high DPS, low damage weapons like   the Riot Shotgun (even with their -10 DT bonus), Tri-Beam Laser Rifle and the   Plasma Caster become much less effective.   In contrast, weapons like Gobi, YCS/186 and the Anti-Materiel Rifle go up in   value. They punch through high enemy DT relatively unscathed. This is what   makes Gobi so damn effective - it's useful in every possible situation as   you can see that it's near the top on every chart.   Also, weapons with a high critical chance, like Pew-Pew and Gobi, continue to   do massive damage. This is why having a character with 10 Luck, getting the   Finesse perk and using the 1st Recon Baret is so important!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   3.04 - Average DPS vs 60 DT Chart--------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Some enemies like the Securitron MK II's have 60 DT. For these enemies, SMGs   and other low-damage weapons simply won't do. You have to bring out the big   guns.   Here's a chart illustrating the average DPS for the various weapons against a   target with 60 DT.   Generally the same story follows: Weapons that do high burst damage or have a   high critical chance like Gobi, Sniper Rifle+, YCS/186 and Pew-Pew get   stronger, while low damage weapons like the the Riot Shotgun, Tri-Beam Laser   Rifle and Plasma Caster+ get much weaker.   While the Riot Shotgun did slightly more DPS compared to Gobi against enemies   with 0 DT, you can see now that Gobi is doing nearly 4x the damage!   .---------------------.------------.--------.----------.---------.---------.   | WEAPON              | AMMO       | CRT %  | BASE DMG | CRT DMG | AVG DPS |   |---------------------|------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|   | Pew-Pew             | EC MC      |  75.0% |    28.50 |  171.00 |  270.75 |   | Gobi                | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    18.00 |  135.00 |  238.66 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF MC      |  20.0% |    22.75 |  179.38 |  232.52 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308 JSP   | 100.0% |    18.60 |  142.50 |  228.00 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC OC      |  75.0% |    21.00 |  126.00 |  199.50 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF OC      |  20.0% |    16.25 |  128.13 |  166.09 |   | Pew-Pew             | EC         |  75.0% |    17.25 |  103.50 |  163.88 |   | Gobi                | .308       | 100.0% |    12.00 |   90.00 |  159.11 |   | Sniper Rifle+       | .308       | 100.0% |    12.40 |   95.00 |  152.00 |   | YCS/186             | MF MC      |  40.0% |   140.00 |  323.75 |  144.54 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF MC      |  20.0% |    36.75 |  695.63 |  143.25 |   | Plasma Caster+      | MF         |  20.0% |    13.00 |  102.50 |  142.14 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF MC      |  40.0% |    11.20 |  113.75 |  125.33 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70 SWC |  20.0% |    21.75 |  184.88 |  112.57 |   | YCS/186             | MF OC      |  40.0% |   100.00 |  231.25 |  103.24 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF OC      |  20.0% |    26.25 |  496.88 |  102.32 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70 SWC |  30.0% |    20.30 |  149.35 |   99.15 |   | This Machine        | .308 JSP   |  20.0% |    19.50 |  153.75 |   99.12 |   | Brush Gun           | .45-70     |  20.0% |    18.75 |  159.38 |   97.04 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF OC      |  40.0% |     8.00 |   81.25 |   89.52 |   | Ranger Seq.         | .45-70     |  30.0% |    17.50 |  128.75 |   85.47 |   | YCS/186             | MF         |  40.0% |    80.00 |  185.00 |   82.59 |   | Multiplas Rifle     | MF         |  20.0% |    21.00 |  397.50 |   81.86 |   | Q-35 MM             | MF         |  40.0% |     6.40 |   65.00 |   71.62 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G Magnum |  20.0% |    17.87 |   17.87 |   71.48 |   | This Machine        | .308       |  20.0% |    13.00 |  102.50 |   66.08 |   | Riot Shot Gun       | 12G        |  20.0% |    15.54 |   15.54 |   62.16 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44 SWC    |  20.0% |    12.18 |   65.25 |   55.56 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC MC      |  45.0% |    19.76 |   19.76 |   53.89 |   | Mysterious Magnum   | .44        |  20.0% |    10.50 |   56.25 |   47.90 |   | All-American        | .556mm AP  |  20.0% |     4.94 |   19.00 |   46.51 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC OC      |  45.0% |    14.56 |   14.56 |   39.71 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50 Match  |  20.0% |    57.50 |  195.50 |   38.10 |   | Anti-Materiel Rifle | .50        |  20.0% |    50.00 |  170.00 |   33.13 |   | Tri-Beam            | EC         |  45.0% |    11.96 |   11.96 |   32.62 |   | All-American        | .556mm     |  20.0% |     5.20 |    5.20 |   31.20 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm JHP  |  20.0% |     7.92 |    7.92 |   21.78 |   | Weather 10mm        | .10mm      |  20.0% |     4.80 |    4.80 |   13.20 |   '---------------------'------------'--------'----------'---------'---------'

I have to mention I disagree with Magnum being the best hold out weapon for the casinos, I always go with Lucky. 40+% crit with perks, cowboy perk +25% dmg, .357 handload +25% dmg -3 DT and -20% spread and 17 AP per shot is much better i think. Also its costs nothing to reload and repair.

And the Brush Gun and Ranger Sequoia are two guns that use 45-70 ammo but are geared differently depending on the player.

Brush gun does more dmg than the Sequoia and costs less AP, however Sequoia reloads almost as fast as a magazine pistol and costs more AP
Brush gun causes movement to be slower and holstering and unholstering the weapon is slower than the pistol.
Brush gun has about double the HP of the Sequoia, but the Sequoia gets +10% crit after perks.

So yeah the 45-70 guns have tradeoffs

Also, whats the chance of .308 ammo appearing in the game/vendors compared to .44 and .45-70?

60+VS30~VS20max at level 30, and .45 may not get restock. Some vendor even go hollow point only....

Contrera may have more, be I have turn he in

I'll look into lucky. I wasn't too impressed with it, but admittedly, I didn't it out too much either.

Good points about the .45-70 comparison.

.308 is not too common to find it. I think you'll find maybe 200-300 throughout the game. However, you can buy 250 rounds from quartermaster barden at hoover dam every 3 days for about 1000 caps... so I don't consider ammo to be a problem at all.

Yeah, it turns out that Lucky is a fair amount better against enemies with 0 DT, and a little better when enemies have more DT. It's about a 30 DPS difference.

It really is a well written guide, but TBH i think that you value the durability too high, also ammo cost is way-way less important (for me at least). I never ever have problems with repairing weapons (any of them) due to the repair kits, and if you want hand loaded ammo, you need enough repair skill anyway. Also money is such a non-issue in this game that its not even funny, i think its worse than FO3. My second playthrough i had 50k+ moneyz when i entered NV (w/o stealing) and i already had all the implants i wanted. After i "finished" with all the casinos i had 120k+ caps, and i didnt cheat, didnt reload when losing (which does not really happen with luck of 7).