Were Argonians and Khajitts supposed to be Human? : V

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:41 am

I started a new game of Daggerfall for the 1st time ever and while I was looking over the game descriptions I noticed that Khajitts were described as a people with animal markings on their faces and Argonians were a `swamp people`...

This sounded a lot to me like they`re Human, but just with adapted animal symbolisms for their tribe or culture. I haven`t gotten far enough into the game to see what these people look like.

So were Argonians and Khajitts really just different Human tribes and in Morrowind they turned them into walking cats and lizards?

» Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:58 pm

Yes, i believe Khajiit used to be human a very long time ago, but times change, aswell as designs :tongue:

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:00 am

Maybe so, but that is now explained with how http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Sub-species_Notes, so both the old and the new khajiits exist still :hehe:

Edit: thirteen, not seventeen :facepalm:

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:36 am

In Arena, Daggerfall (they didn't appear in Battlespire), Argonians were lizard people and (other then graphics) were the same as they are now...just with way less lore. Khajiits were just humans with agile cat abilities, and tattoos to show their cat relationship.

When Elder Scrolls went 3D with The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard, Khajiit were made into 'cat people' as they are now, and to explain the differences, the lore about all the different breeds of Khajiit was made up.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:00 am

Yes, i believe Khajiit used to be human a very long time ago, but times change, aswell as designs :tongue:

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg

Wow. That`s a pretty significant change! I always thought there was something not quite right about Khajitts and Argonians. I suppose the designers decided having everyone Human wasn`t varied enough for the world...

Really puts a different light on things.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:50 am

I suppose the designers decided having everyone Human wasn`t varied enough for the world...

I for one approve of that. Fantasy games with humans and elves as the only civilized species are a dime a dozen (or however you say that :shrug:

).

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:21 am

Khajitts were described as a people with animal markings on their faces and Argonians were a `swmap people`...

I think "people" here means "tribe", "group sharing a culture", not actually "humans".

I can't see in-game descriptions now, but from UESP (Daggerfall article):

You are part of a highly-evolved race of reptiles
So no humans here. However...

You are part of a tawny-skinned people, extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their legendary feline cousins, the predatory cats that hunt the great desert.
Nothing at all about being a cat. Actually, this description suggests they're humans who try to resemble cats. This is further proved by their in-game looks: no fur, in Arena they didn't even have a tail!

So Argonians were they way they are now, but Khajiit were humans who later miraculously grew fur, whiskers and learned to see in the dark - because apparently they were more interesting as cat-people than yet another human race

It's funny that Khajiit are actually cousins to Bosmer - they were both created from the Forest People, some transformed by Azura and some by Y'ffre.

Even the lore tells us there was a time when Khajiit weren't cats

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:19 am

According to Khajiiti creation myths, they were once the same as bosmer

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/words-clan-mother-ahnissi-her-favored-daughter

And Azurah came to her and said, "Poor Nirni, stop your tears. Azurah makes for you a gift of a new people." Nirni stopped weeping, and Azurah spoke the First Secret to the Moons and they parted and let Azurah pass. And Azurah took some forest people who were torn between man and beast, and she placed them in the best deserts and forests on Nirni. And Azurah in her wisdom made them of many shapes, one for every purpose. And Azurah named them Khajiit and told them her Second Secret and taught them the value of secrets. And Azurah bound the new Khajiit to the Lunar Lattice, as is proper for Nirni's secret defenders. Then Azurah spoke the Third Secret, and the Moons shone down on the marshes and their light became sugar.

But Y'ffer heard the First Secret and snuck in behind Azurah. And Y'ffer could not appreciate secrets, and he told Nirni of Azurah's trick. So Nirni made the deserts hot and the sands biting. And Nirni made the forests wet and filled with poisons. And Nirni thanked Y'ffer and let him change the forest people also. And Y'ffer did not have Azurah's subtle wisdom, so Y'ffer made the forest people Elves always and never beasts. And Y'ffer named them Bosmer. And from that moment they were no longer in the same litter as the Khajiit.

Argonians are neither man or mer though. They were lizards that licked the hist sap which changed them.

» Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:44 am

You are part of a tawny-skinned people, extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their legendary feline cousins, the predatory cats that hunt the great desert.
Nothing at all about being a cat. Actually, this description suggests they're humans who try to resemble cats. This is further proved by their in-game looks: no fur, in Arena they didn't even have a tail!

It was this that got me thinking when I saw it in the game. I guess I got the Argonian bit wrong- must go back and check...