Almost forgot the button that activates the roar coukd be used for offensive skills and A on xbox and X on ps3 could be for passive skills like leap and the senses.

I feel, that for the Ring we may be trying to over complicate it, because I feel the Ring gives a sort of false Lycanthropy, I believe we don't "need" the forced transformation, I believe the Lunar Transformations are not a big essential thing to the fixing of the Wolf but including it would like putting a sweet cherry on top of a nice cake it's not needed but it's a nice extra.

As for the Werewolf fun factor, I share your thoughts and feeling I would however just "barely" stretch it to level 15, but even then it's a stretch, it's not a fun feeling when your a big badass Werewolf and you take off a sliver of health from a damned city gaurd even when he's getting up after you've [censored] slapped him 10 feet away, it just feels like the claws are butter knives.

Now thats a good idea, also I did have an idea as I was reading this about what you said with favorites, if the "favorite" list is replaced with selectable Werewolf abilities, so there would be perhaps "transform" which would revert you back to human "roar" which is as it is now and such and such, and having 2 equipped would be the as you said Offensive and Passive Skills.

Edit - or was that YOUR idea?

Oh so you're a console player..

I don't think you're going to get what you want out of them. They don't do revamps.

(this is sometimes depressing..)

Yes the fact this is for console players is said in the first post of the original thread, and we won't know unless we try will we?

So we're trying, and we might get lucky.

Really ignorant of Beth doing this to its players. Why not do something that can help your game that cost you practicly nothing?
Other games do it and become better and get more players.

Who knows, maybe they will alter it one way or another, aslong as enough people join the cause, there may actually do it.
We won't know if we don't try.

Werewolf vampire, that is all.

it's been proven it won't work. If you're a vampire and get Lycanthropy it removes your Vampirism, and if you're a Werewolf you can't get diseases.

I have recently gone through other Threads similar to this one on the forums, one that belongs to Garin. And in his thread he posted up some ideas about the Werewolf perk tree, and while I do compliment him on the idea, I personally believe a more simplified Tree is in order that is IF the tree patch/DLC WHATEVER you want to call it goes ahead and actually gets done. So Without cluttering up this post alone, I will be trying to make basic perks that the Werewolf perk tree would have, some ideas I achknowledge will be comming from Garin's because they're basic, essential or are just damn good ideas.

after reading the first thread i've come to a conclusion, werewolves and vampires should level up in a way similar to how the PC did in oblivion. If there were quests that you had to preform to become a more powerful werewolf id do them. adding more racial abilities as you leveled up would be nice too, things like a claw bonus to unarmed daily powers in human form and increased werewolf abilities, maybe with a branch that allows you to sneak, would make the werewolf worth while. making them perks however would put people at level 81 like me in a bad place and force us to make a designated werewolf character.

vampires do belong in the elder scrolls but need to get redone as undead instead of the blade-esque highlanders they are made out to be.

both would be more fun if they seemed more like the creatures they're based off of and not like what they are in the world of TES, confused monsters that don't know what they want to be they're own spin on werewolves and vampires or just rip offs of 3.0 templates with in universe terms swapped in place of the old D&D ones.

Werewolf
Claw- Increase Claw damage (/5)
Thick Hide- Increase Armor Rating/Damage Resistance (/5)
Wolf Eye- See in the Dark (so midnight eye really)
Predator- Able to sneak while not in combat mode. (Further enhanced by current sneak skills)
Arrow Blocker- 25% to block arrows.
Strong Scent- Able to detect enemies 2 miles around. (Always Active)
Ravenous Hunger- Double Health regeneration and Bloodlust extend when feeding.
Revert Change- Return to original form before Bloodlust ends.

Speaking personally I think that is a rather good Perk Tree, other may add to it as they wish or suggest better named or better anything. Your comments, your opinions and other ideas are always good to hear

I do like your idea, the quest for increased power especially for the Werewolves was also done in Morrowind Bloodmoon, where they first came into it, Hircine would give you a job to do and upon completing it he'd give you a bonus. But yeah I do like that idea, but it's just now people seem to want more freedom over their character rather than a forced ugh upgrade if you see what I mean?

as stated before, i want werewolf vampires.

but i see your point the perk tree is a great idea but it would make me not want to play werewolf at all because it's draining my resources that could go towards more important skills.

That is exactly the thing I've said before! But everyone wants to go ahead with the perk tree idea, before hand on the original thread onpage 10 I think, I posted some alterations for a prototype better scaling system for the Werewolf to make it feel better and more powerful at higher levels.

Now, going back to my original plan, of the altered scaling system, this would allow for a more rounded Werewolf, so no matter your perks or playing type the Werewol as it is now would be the same but better just enhanced, with a better scaling system, which I believe would be a simpler solution. This is my original idea posted on page 7 (as it seems format has altered) this is as I shall say a quote from the previous thread.

I was thinking maybe start 20 again for level 1 and resistance also make that 20 just so we start with a good number, now realistically if you go straight for the companions quests, you'll probabily end up I'm guessing about level 5 until you become a Werewolf.
So maybe Increase the damage 3 per level.
And increase the Resistance 2 per level.
So by level 5 lets say the damage would have increase by 12 because you wouldn't obviously count level 1, and resistance by 8
So overall at level 5 the Werewolf would do 32 damage and it would have 28 resistance.

Can anyone think of anything maybe better? I'm merely throwing out ideas right now.

So if the max level is 80, then that would mean. damage increases 237 so an overal damage of 257 (make it 258 to make it even)
And an overal resistance of 157, so an overal resistance of 179 (so 180 to make it even)......

This as I said before hand is a protoype/rough scaling idea. Improvements and comments can be made to it by anyone.

Okay so... we need people to think IF Bethesda was going to do EITHER of these ideas, which one would you want them to do.

If hyperthetically Bethesda went with the tree, I believe my tree design idea is simple and wouldn't cost "too much" all in all.

But as I've said people have leaned towards this idea and have argued if you don't use it and let it get weak it's tough luck, which in truth I don't believe, I think the Werewolf SHOULD be strong all the time. But in truth I feel that both ideas are good. Both have their weaknesses and strengths.

The perk tree, gives more abilities to the Werewolf at the cost of skill points.
The Enhanced Scaling, gives a more helpful back up without costing points, but is limited by what it can do now.

perk tree will never happen outside of a unofficial mod so ignore anyone who assumes it's a good idea.

That was what I had feared really, but alot of people were really keen on the idea, I speak truthfully and personally don't care if it's either one of the two.

I would be just as happy with the scaling system. But the would I tried is too overpowered, what do you think?

gamesas has already used the questing for werewolf power ups thing so now it's up to them to simply expand on it, the best we could do is persistently ask for more werewolf quests.

I suppose, but I feel the scaling with the Werewolf is bad, and I think it's something that should be altered, sure more quests for I don't know extra damage or something would be great but right now, I feel I want to go into any dungeon or anything with feedable targets and come out with out too much fuss, sure a healthy fight but I don't want t be absolutely destroyed like I am now, and someone else said to turn down the difficulty, others have said mods THOSE are not answers, those are cheating in my eyes, I feel with an improved scaling system the Werewolf will feel how it should feel.

I just want to to feel strong again like it did in the lower levels, I don't want to feel weak while using it, now that I'm in the 30s. Maybe. Maybe I've taken the Werewolf thing too seriously and taken it to heart, but it's something in a game, to become a Werewolf I'd been looking for, for years, an actual Werewolf ability in a game. I just want it to feel it'll ALWAYS be useful always be strong.

And in truth I know, I could be wasting my breath and wasting my time, Bethesda probabily may not even care, they'll have more important things to do, but to me this is important, but maybe I'm an idiot who takes things way too seriously. I just trying to get something changed which I believe and I hope others believe needs altering. I know in time there will be a "mod" for something awesome for the Werewolf but that won't help alot of people who may feel the way I do, I have a Skyrim on Playstation 3, mods aren't going to help me.

Sorry if I ranted a little. I just want this so badly

1. everything about this game screams beta release, just like FONV.
2. Nothing scales this whole game has been killed by glitches just like NV, the difference being is that NV's glitches made the game turn off this games glitches make the game show how shallow and half assed everything else is.
3. we're all wasting our time bethesda never listens to the fans, 6 months they'll introduce a DLC that lets us ride horkers like horses in water with the words "we've gotten loads of requests asking for this and we know everyone is going to love this" before it's unveiling.

I guess I just like hoping they'll be different since Elder Scrolls is their big franchise. I hope so anyway. I just don't want to give up and call it quits, I feel passionate about this thread about this topic. I want it to succeed

Look people of Skyrim Forums, I just want to ask.

Is there really any point to me trying to keep this thread alive?

Some people have commented on Bethesda's not so good reputation for not doing somethings.

So I just continue and hope they'll actually do it one way or another, I don't really care how they do it aslong as they do.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322353-werewolf-patchadjustment-poll/

I have made a new thread that has a poll so we can see how the majority of people wish the Werewolf fixture be sorted.