What the hell am I doing with my life? : Othor Games

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:16 am

Steel your nerves, for this is a fairly lengthy post. I figured after seeing http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1215192-i-cant-decide-what-to-do-with-my-life/ (I promise I'll give my two cents to you sometime today, Seti) that I may as well rant about my life too. Oh what times we live in, that I'm asking forum members for advice - well, at least Bethesda fans are a pretty unique bunch: well-spoken and pretty diverse in their interests and walks of life. I'm sure there's even a few younger people on this forum who are in a similar situation as I am. But anyway, let me begin.

I was born eighteen years ago. For sixty-five years I've served as Tamriel's emperor. But for all these years, I still don't know what to do with my life. Now this ordinarily isn't a big deal, quite the contrary in that our society seems to have come to embrace the notion of sending clueless kids into college with the intent of finding a major that fancies them along the way, as opposed to planning their lives in advance by running family businesses or becoming apprentices as we used to. Let me tell you a bit about myself.

As a child, I have always enjoyed fiction, fantasy and history - whether within the quiet and reserved context of History Channel documentaries or Disney movies (Hunchback of Notre Dame is easily my favorite stylistically and thematically). I've always loved the worlds portrayed and used to wish I could live in those times. Indeed, my strongest academic subjects are the humanities: history and English I have consistently enjoyed all my life, both as hobbies and as classes. I love the hands-on, speculative nature of these subjects, how they give you so much creative and anolytical freedom. Some people don't see the enjoyment to be found in forming your own theories about things like how Islamic views towards filial piety affected Neo-Confucianism in China. I do, but conversely I have virtually no interest in math and science (unless they're very directly applied, like physics).

I've been told time and time again that I'd make a good archaeologist, anthropologist, curator, something of the sort. I could definitely fancy a nice job in a museum, helping to date and sort pieces. Everything about the past fascinates me, to the point it's almost a childishly nostalgic, Holden Caulfield-esque obsession. Some of the more trivial examples? I love the handpainted backgrounds of old cartoons, old boxy-framed cars, EGA 16-color computer games, what have you. Even the old Windows 9x icons, I felt, had more character and descriptiveness about them than the increasingly glossy, gradient-filled icons that have been plaguing the Windows OS since XP and now well into 7.

What's wrong with history, then? I don't know - I'm not a big academics person and I don't think I could ever commit myself to a job in history. One typically requires a master's or Ph.D in order to attain safe employment, but I don't want to teach either. Unless you nab some nice government contract or a consulting job, you're going to be spending a lot of time sitting around some university using their funding for your own research. I like to be my own boss and keep my options open, something I really don't think I'd be able to maintain if I had to fall back to becoming a professor.

I also have an interest in graphic design and website design, the former of which I've done a lot for my school over the years. I was assistant and later chief editor of our high school newspaper's layout in the last two years, and I really enjoy designing things like posters, logos, what have you. I really enjoyed working on the school's paper, just hanging out, throwing ideas around with one another and improvising with everything. A productive and creative atmosphere to work in, one I truly reveled in. I don't consider myself very good though, and whilst I do want to do some intern stuff whilst in college in this field, I don't know if it's right for me as a longtime career. My dad is a photo retoucher and graphic designer, and as much as I share his passion, I have the problem of questioning myself and my abilities all the time. More of a major character flaw in general than something that only matters for certain professions, but still.

This is where things get particularly confusing. I've also had a huge passion for game design since I was a child. I've done a lot of game modding, particularly level design and texture artwork. Unfortunately, I seldom get anything done - admittedly suffering from a bit of an inferiority complex, it won't be long before I decide to completely scrap a map for whatever reason. I'll often imagine a TES mod fully complete, or imagine one totally cool room in a Half-Life map, but then anywhere from an hour to weeks into development I'll realize I just have nothing else to work with to create the rest of the project. And then I scrap it.

Here's an anology that only some gaming veterans who've really been in tune with the developers over the years will get. I think of myself a lot like Ken Rolston or John Romero - a visionary, who likes to do a bit of anything and everything and thinks about the final product, but often gets in over his head. I've had so many ambitious ideas for games, but I never get far with them. And I don't know what part of game design I'm best at - I can do everything but program, which kind of svcks because it means I can't really entertain any of my ideas. I'd love to just start out small with some Flash or Java games to play around in, but this far down the line I'm not sure if it's really worth it to teach myself programming. As stated, I definitely am more of a theory sort of person when it comes to design, not a technical "this is how it has to be" sort. I think I'd be really good at writing or world design - focusing on the big picture, how the story or factions play out, how a city is designed and the history behind its architecture. There's a lot of lore-heavy games I've wanted to make, but unless I resort to something like Game Maker I can't exactly go it alone. There's one story in particular I've been gradually fomenting in the back of my head, that I definitely want to make into an adventure game someday. Think something like Tintin or the adventurous radio serials of the 1920s. You know who I'd like to be like, sometimes? Yahtzee Croshaw. Someone who just kind of gets to do a bit of everything in designing games. Adventure and role-playing games are certainly my favorite genres, I'll tell you that. I'm pretty fond of writing, and as far as raw statistics go, well, SAT Writing 780. :spotted owl:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1244212/RPIFolio/index.html It's also the only website I've ever technically "finished", even though it's lacking some images and full of placeholders at that. I know the ins and outs of HTML/CSS/PHP, but I have virtually no incentive to use them unfortunately. I'm redesigning a non profit organization's website for a friend this month, but I don't know how well that'll go. I need to work on aesthetics for sure.

That's really all I have to say, I've kind of just spilled my heart out here and now I kind of feel awkward about everything I've complained about. But I don't know where to go from here - I've considered simply keeping all the design stuff as a hobby, of course - most game developers start out that way. However, I don't know what to do for college. I was thinking of becoming an English major possibly, since I'd have a lot of freedom in what to work in. Too bad they get such a bad rep. I was thinking it'd be cool, somewhere down the line, to start my own printing/publishing business or something of the sort. Something on a local level, that's both involved and fulfilling to my want to play around with different aspects of design. I definitely want to play it safe though, to a degree. The fact my parents are baby boomers doesn't help much as my dad is pushing into his mid 60's. I want to be well-established, for my parents to be proud of me. Not go the way of some Bohemian hipster designer who's living in between social security checks. It's far too late for that. :bonk:

Anyway, this is a mouthful, perhaps too much so for a college freshman to have cogitated on his own. I just feel so uncertain sometimes about which of my hobbies are just hobbies and which I'm meant to turn into careers - I tell myself that within the structured and constructive context of schooling, I can definitely become more productive and prideful of my hobbies. Working on projects with deadlines and with peers/instructors who can help you out and motivate you is a lot different from brooding alone in your room, getting existential about the nature of your work and ways in which it just may not be worth it.

Has anybody else ever felt this torn before? Especially between hobbies of such relatively disconnected careers. I'm an INTP if that helps at all in generalizing my personality, but a general response is definitely not the sort of answer I'm seeking. Come on non-programming designer folk, I know you're out there. :stare:

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:33 pm

I'm much like you. I realised, however, at 17, that nobody was going to pay me to do the things I actually enjoyed, so I've spent the last 4 years studying divorce procedure and medical negligence.

I think too many people focus on a specific defined hobby that they wish to build their careers around. Most people who work in your average moderately well paid white collar job never wanted to do that, but they built up an ability to perform well as an office everyman. That is far more realistic than studying game design and setting yourself up for a waste of time.

Of course if you can actually do programming, then you've got a useful skill even outside of videogame development.

Unless yours is a professional degree like a doctor or lawyer, or a technical one like engineering and computing, any vaguely normal degree will get you the first step on the ladder to say you are at least competent enough to get that far. The rest comes with building experience as a functioning working advlt.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:11 am

Its funny that you go through.a forum topic list and id hqve skipped the thread if you werent the thread starter! Im drunk and only 2 years older than you, so i cant give advice, but follow your passion and thats evidently game design. You just need more motivstion. Keep yout head straight man.

Forgive my spelling, im typing from a mobile and ive just come back from a wedding lol.

Also you may be suffering from the dreadful procrastination, not just infer. complex.

In the end choose something youre proficient or can be proficient in.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:15 pm

Its funny that you go through.a forum topic list and id hqve skipped the thread if you werent the thread starter!

:tongue: Me too!

I think of myself a lot like Ken Rolston or John Romero - a visionary, who likes to do a bit of anything and everything and thinks about the final product, but often gets in over his head.

Thank God Kirkbride was able to rescue that project.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:20 am

My advice: take a variety of classes your 1st and 2nd years to see what interests you more and go from there. Ever since last year, I've been determined to major in Classics (about to start my 1st year), but who knows. I may change my mind in 1-2 years after taking classes.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:02 pm

Life isn't worth it if you hate what you're doing and how you're living, but for indecisive mercurial people sometimes the only way to find out what you want to do is to first find out what you don't want to do. I learned this lesson the hard way I think.

What I'm trying to say is maybe you need to just try something anyways, and see how you like it (or hate it) and then move on from there. Maybe not worry so much about the consequences of picking the wrong major, because people do that all the time, and just jump in. College counselors will make it sound like you're set in stone forever and ever when you pick something because it's partially their job to get you through the pipeline with a degree, any degree, rather than make sure you're happy. I say phooey on them.

Hell, roll the dice and cast it to fate.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:39 am

Life isn't worth it if you hate what you're doing and how you're living,

I still say that's better than starving.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:33 am

Its funny that you go through.a forum topic list and id hqve skipped the thread if you werent the thread starter! Im drunk and only 2 years older than you, so i cant give advice, but follow your passion and thats evidently game design. You just need more motivstion. Keep yout head straight man.

Thanks, I- hey wait, what are you implying? In any case I don't really know what my passion is. I suppose I'm more compassionate about design than the academic stuff, back in high school as soon as we'd get the roster of stories for the next newspaper article in I'd enjoy doodling out layouts in my room, even whilst everybody else was saying it was too early to obsess over things like that.

Motivation is my problem. Life was easy back in the 90's when I was making pretend boss battles in Donkey Kong 64 to entertain my brother with. Things are a bit less clear-cut nowadays when you're trying to make an entire RPG from scratch, and you have so few friends who understand/appreciate your interests. I'm kind of doing everything more to impress myself than I am other people.

Of course if you can actually do programming, then you've got a useful skill even outside of videogame development.

Unless yours is a professional degree like a doctor or lawyer, or a technical one like engineering and computing, any vaguely normal degree will get you the first step on the ladder to say you are at least competent enough to get that far. The rest comes with building experience as a functioning working advlt.

One thing I've noticed throughout game design over the past two decades is that programming is the only genuinely "dedicated" position on a team there is. Everybody can take turns writing quests, designing the areas for them and even some of the artwork that complement those areas, but the people who program tend to be on another tier altogether and pretty much everybody has to rely on them. Even roles like level design aren't very committal positions anymore as engines are moving away from brushes and becoming increasingly model-based in nature. So now every hobbyist who used to make maps for Doom or Quake when they were a kid now ought to be half-proficient at modelling too, if they want to be really safe in their position. I know industries evolve like that and you need to keep up with them, but at the same time it's like how virtually anybody with Photoshop on their computer can be self-described "graphic designer" nowadays, whereas back in the 1970s that was a term reserved for the person who knew how to manipulate a pasteboard and set the printers.

It's funny how as a hobbyist you enjoy how the amateur scene is expanding and how accessible things like modding are becoming for everyone, but then once you start thinking about it from an employment perspective you kind of realize it's just making everything harder for you to get noticed at the same time. :teehee:

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:00 am

I still say that's better than starving.

Maybe. But maybe there's a reason artists and musicians are so often prefaced with "starving". They'd sooner die than abandon what they love.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:45 am

One thing I've noticed throughout game design over the past two decades is that programming is the only genuinely "dedicated" position on a team there is. Everybody can take turns writing quests, designing the areas for them and even some of the artwork that complement those areas, but the people who program tend to be on another tier altogether and pretty much everybody has to rely on them. Even roles like level design aren't very committal positions anymore as engines are moving away from brushes and becoming increasingly model-based in nature. So now every hobbyist who used to make maps for Doom or Quake when they were a kid now ought to be half-proficient at modelling too, if they want to be really safe in their position.

I'd be pretty terrified if my job in a company was something as transient as "level designer". I can only assume those sort of people are jacks of all trades, who can move around to do whatever non-programming function needs doing for that project.

I know industries evolve like that and you need to keep up with them, but at the same time it's like how virtually anybody with Photoshop on their computer can be self-described "graphic designer" nowadays,

You need to be very good to make a decent living at that, my dad told me that if I'd persisted in trying to be a graphic designer, he'd have taken some of their paychecks home to show me how little they get paid.

whereas back in the 1970s that was a term reserved for the person who knew how to manipulate a pasteboard and set the printers.

And I was doing seasonal work with some of those until last week, and those are still pretty secure jobs to have. Some of the old programmers from the 70s were still there, because they could manipulate things on a coding level rather than the user level that most people are at.

Maybe. But maybe there's a reason artists and musicians are so often prefaced with "starving". They'd sooner die than abandon what they love.

In my case, the soulless jobs are there to sustain me while I do the things I enjoy in my spare time. It's a tradeoff.

Of course, I have the ability to continue doing things I absolutely hate without it affecting me in the long run. I can cope with constant hate like that, I maintain grudges over decades, some people can't stand the constant negativity, but I've learned to live off it.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:14 pm

In my case, the soulless jobs are there to sustain me while I do the things I enjoy in my spare time. It's a tradeoff.

I've kind of been gravitating to that idea for a while now, that so long as I have my hobbies (and they are numerous) I really only need a modest-paying job that isn't entirely undignified, and I could keep myself busy. I consider myself to have a fair bit of intellectual curiosity, but in my situation this tends to mean that I enjoy dabbling in a bit of everything. I don't feel compelled to completely dedicate myself to one pursuit nor to specialize in it. Which is why I know C++, Java, and Python, but only enough of each to do really basic console programs - enough to appreciate/respect those who are well versed in the skill but nothing that can be practically adapted to suit my purposes.

I almost feel as if I'll never be truly happy in any singular pursuit, so it'd be pretty hard to have a committal career that I wouldn't get tired of eventually. Which is why self-employment would be ideal for a person such as myself, if only I knew where to begin. And this is partly why I question how comprehensive my degree should be, if any at all.

Game design would be nice given the nature of being able to bounce around between roles, but I really don't want to pursue a terminal "video game development" degree because of how limited they are. Not to mention such schools still leave much to desired, from what older friends have told me. I'd like to study something general that interests me, like history, and then apply it in designing games - like Sid Meier. But obviously, Sid could program. :spotted owl:

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:22 am

In my case, the soulless jobs are there to sustain me while I do the things I enjoy in my spare time. It's a tradeoff.

Of course, I have the ability to continue doing things I absolutely hate without it affecting me in the long run. I can cope with constant hate like that, I maintain grudges over decades, some people can't stand the constant negativity, but I've learned to live off it.

Turns stop stealing my ideas on terrible/boring jobs.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:43 pm

But obviously, Sid could program. :spotted owl:

Pfft. Brian Reynolds was the brains of the outfit.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:25 am

Its far more important to follow your passion, and work on projects which mean something to you than it is to 'do as your told' by getting some mundane job that has no bearing on who you are..

its better to be poor but living out your purpose than it is to have all the money in the world yet still left asking 'what am I here for'?

knowledge, fitness and health are the greatest forms of wealth, these are the things you take with you when you die.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:45 am

I just read this whole thread and realized I don't have any advice. I started programming when I was 16 ( two years ago ) and have slowly become skilled enough to make my own games. The only reason I'd seek out another non-programmer at this point is for moral support, as scope creep is something I've encountered a few times before. I'd like to have someone whom I could meet up with in real life and we could plan and work together in person. On the internet, people drop in and out of projects so often it makes you only want to work by yourself.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:09 pm

it seems to me that your main passion is game design. I know you get stuck, but that's where schooling comes in handy.

An example of this is my passion for the recording arts. I love to make a song and record, mix and master them. I often find myself in your boat where I get in way over my head and have to scrap the idea. But since I am going to college for it, and have made friends with other people that are recording geniuses, I have been able to figure out a few more things then when I didn't have any schooling, or other people that knew what they were doing.

All you need is a little help, and you can start doing more advanced projects.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:18 pm

knowledge, fitness and health are the greatest forms of wealth, these are the things you take with you when you die.

How can you have fitness and health, if you're dead?

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:53 pm

Im drunk and only 2 years older than you...

I've started many sentences that way.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:23 pm

Get ready for disappointment. Life in itself is a huge let-down. You apply yourself, land a job that you enjoy doing. Work hard to be good at what you do and then when you think you are doing good, society, the current administration, the government, the town you live in, the bank that holds your mortgage, your employer come along slap you in the face and ruin everything.

If you haven't noticed. I'm incredibly bitter.

All I'm saying is that your going to be disappointed in your life. There is no "furture" or "American Dream" (if you live in America), its work at a menial or unsatisfying job for what? To get taxed and [censored] by everyone, the bank, the government, the town.

Eh...

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:47 pm

I can sort of sympathise, apart from the part where you're good at things.

I've never really had any stand out talents, I'm just OK at most things I put my hand to. I ended up choosing to go to University and do something that has the potential to be financially rewarding but I don't really enjoy it. Looking back over the last 2 years I've spent at University this was clearly the wrong choice for me, as things stand at the moment it's pretty unlikely I'll enter any field even closely related to my degree anyway, so it's going to have been 4 years of needless purgatory.

You don't have to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life at 18. It's this pressure that will lead you to making a bad decision (Like I did).

Whatever you decide to do just make sure you enjoy yourself, that's what it comes down to at the end of the day.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:29 am

Are you trying to get into RPI or are you going there? I'm just curious after noticing your portfolio name and I didn't feel like reading through the whole thread.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:19 am

I still say that's better than starving.

True.

A lot of people say you should pick the job you love, but I'd definitely take a $100,000/year, cruddy job over a $50,000/year fun job.

Money is money, like it or not.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:40 am

I feel like you a lot too. My advice? Do something for money for a good chunk of your life. You'll need it. Do what you enjoy on the side, making games, studying history, anything you love, but money is money as RAF1940 said. I'm somewhat the same dilemma but I realized that getting my degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering would allow me to do so much more than my passion, which is literature. It's a crappy situation, but what can you do.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:57 am

True.

A lot of people say you should pick the job you love, but I'd definitely take a $100,000/year, cruddy job over a $50,000/year fun job.

Money is money, like it or not.

I dunno, I'm talking about earning nothing and earning enought to live on. I'd happily take the fun job in this instance.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:47 pm

I dunno, I'm talking about earning nothing and earning enought to live on. I'd happily take the fun job in this instance.

Agreed, it's easy to say I'll take a crappy job for money, but very hard to do. Stuff like family, friends, health, etc are much more important to me.